Can anyone advise me on a method to remove the liners of an old flute’s head and barrel (I realise I have to heat them up somehow). I have use of a fully equipped engineering workshop. I did consider fixing the cracks using the superglue method, but as a Clementi it has the additional problem of the ribbing.
I think Terry Mcgee has some very good advice on his website - I don’t have his web address but you can find pretty easily - you’ll need nerves of steel but if I remember rightly, his advice is very good - and if you kill your flute you can console yourself by ordering one of his! lol
Please don`t use heat! There is generaly no reason for it. Go to your local gun shop, buy a bottle of Break Free, apply it to the tuning slide, set it aside until tomorrow and then disasemble. If you think that crack is bad now, just wait until you try to heat the slide…
Take care
Tom
Thanks Kelpie, though I had looked through Terry’s site and although he mentions removing the slide he doesn’t go into the details. I sent him an email a few days ago to see if he was willing to have a go at fixing it, though I haven’t had anything back. The more I’ve been thinking about it the more I fancy doing it myself. If I don’t hear back from Terry over the next few days … well the flute gets it!
Just so you know what I’m up against.
I fail to see how a bottle of anything is going to make much of an impression Blackbeer, alas it is not a seized tuning slide that I need to seperate, but the whole inner liners of both barrel and head.
Dear nitterwhiskers,
If you heat of the metal liner or barrel they will radically expand, further cracking your wood. I’m not sure what type of adhesive is holding the parts together, but acetone is a fairly universal solvent. But, be careful not to saturate the wood with it. Acetone may bleach out some of the color of blackwood, so best check an inconspicuous area.
Breakfree is a great solvent/lubricant for metals. However, it might attack your wood. I would rule out the Breakfree.
Best wait for a reply from a reputable instrument repair person!
Carefully plan, understand and execute this repair, or you will be doomed to failure before you even start!
Best of Luck!
Jordan
Hmm well if it’s an nice player then I’d go carefully - what about finding a woodwind technician - there must be some in the big smoke and that’s not too far to send the flute at least they’ll have a better understanding of the levels of brutality needed - and they’ll be insured against breakage (maybe). Try Dominic Allen too - I’ve got one of his flutes and I think he’s a top chappy - plus he’d pretty damn close
You are going to need sufficient heat up the main tube ( boiling kettle ) to melt whatever adhesive has been used. It will almost certainly be shellac.
You should be able to push the tube out then.
As the joints are already cracked it will not matter very much if you open the crack a little more, but you are not likely to.
There are problems sometimes with Potters.
You will need an adjustable reamer ready for after you have screwed the pins into the region of the crack, but that doesn’t sound a problem to one in a fully equipped workshop.
I have recently fixed a headcrack using cocus and ebony dust, but unfortunately I can’t finish the polishing off as I can’t find the repair !
Thanks Andrew,
Boiling water did the trick.
Well done.
Shellac is readily available through a good hardware store.( which may need to order it ). You may need some for refixing after glueing, pinning, and re-reaming
About £ 5 for 1/2 a pound which should last you a good while.
It rather looks from the size of the hole in the lining tube that the flute has a bushed embouchure. If there is a bush does it need replacing ?
d
No Andrew, unfortunately there is no bush on my flute. I’m getting ready to do the crack, I don’t intend on pinning it - I’ll just get stuck in and fill it. It’s turning into quite a dirty job.
On a more serious note, which do you recommend superglue or epoxy?
I was thinking of steam rather than boiling water.
There seems limited point in taking the tube out if you are not going to make the repair a permanent one.
If it is a clean break the crack should close up completely if you treat it right; there should be no question of filling it .
Superglue would be best, I imagine, if you can run it in all right.
It will be important to ream out the closed up joints the right amount.
Perhaps you should consider an ivory bush.
The Prowses tended to fit them as standard, pandering to Nicholson’s fancies.
Email me if you feel you need one.
Just to jump in mid-repair..
I’d recommend epoxy over superglue. It takes a little longer to set up, which means you have more time to work and clamp the cracked piece tightly.
Clean the interior of the crack with alcohol before sealing it - to make sure the adhesive takes well to both sides and that the crack is free from debris which could keep it from closing completely.
Find a scrap of wood of the same type and color as the flute and sand it to create a little bit of fine sawdust. Mix enough sawdust into the epoxy to change the epoxy color to match the color of the wood - this might take a good bit of dust.
Use this sawdust/epoxy mixture to seal the crack (make sure to fill it completely so that there is even some coming out the interior and exterior along the whole crack).
As Andrew mentioned, it’s important after repairing the crack to bore out the interior of the headjoint to accept the liner without putting undue pressure on the wood -that’s why it cracked in the first place.
To adhere the liner you can use heat (boiling water might work, but an alcohol flame might be easier) to heat the metal and then adhere it with shellac as Andrew mentioned. You can get musical instrument stick shellac from your local instrument repair technician, or from online (such as http://www.musicmedic.com/ ).
It looks like a nice instrument, I’d love to see some more photos as you complete the project!
Good luck,
Pelham
Unless the crack is chewed up you should be able to close it cleanly so you should need no filling, except possibly for a little cosmetic surface touches with superglue. As the crack will not be open there may be no need to clamp it, which would tend to sqeeze the glue out and risk a dry joint. Indeed you may need to push it open to run the glue well in.
You will need it jolly well glued if you really intend not to pin it !
I would expect epoxy glues to leave a much bigger interface of glue than superglue and make the job much longer and more awkward. It doesn’t produce the instant dense result that superglue does. If you do want to use dust ( blackwood would do ) you simply pack the crack, perhaps in layers, and touch the superglue on top, spreading it with a pin, possibly. Epoxy I have found will not finish off so well, being much less hard.
I really can’t see the advantage of the epoxy compared with superglue.
Sometimes to improve the wood to wood superglue adhesion it can be helpful to use an alkali wash before glueing.
I would expect you to apply the thick shellac solution to the tubes and then apply heat to dry them out when in position.
Why would you want to heat the tube before locating it in the headjoint, Pelham ?
Nitterwhisker,
Also you may consider that superglue comes in different thicknesses and set-up times. Fretted instrument repairers keep an assortment on hand. Thin when you need flow, thick when you need to bridge, fast when it can’t be clamped, thick when it can… and so on.
A search for “cyano” in any repair forum should return plenty.
Hope this helps. And please keep us informed of the progress.
Byron
If the crack is going to close up you would need the thin ( quick drying )
glue. The whole point of taking the tube out would seem to be to close the crack up completely, otherwise you would just fill in with the head tube in.
If you are filling an open crack with dust you will again need a thin glue.
I fear that if you use sandpaper to produce your dust you will end up with glass in the dust. A file does quite well.
I decided on superglue.
The combing made it quite difficult, both in gluing as well as finishing. The lighting in the photos accentuates the repaired cracks- it doesn’t look so bad under normal viewing.
Shellac on order from windcraft. I would pin it Andrew but I don’t feel brave enough. Moving onto the springs next, any advice there would be appreciated. I’m thinking I’ll hold them in place with a dab of superglue?
What on earth do you hope to achieve with superglue on the springs. Not trying to replace the rivets I trust ?
Well I won’t be replacing the rivets, I was thinking drill the spring mount it on the rivet and hold with glue. Since the rivets are ‘squashed’ I have to ‘over drill’ the springs to get them to fix over. I did think of using thin steel springs and skimming the existing top of the rivet to get a good fit, I could then fix in place by hammering down what was left of the rivet. Your question seems to suggest I’m missing something obvious.
I doubt if superglue would hold anything in such a situation.
If the original springs are no good you may be better off replacing them with more brass springs. If the rivets are not silver you could well use silver wire to replace them. If they are silver you will be able to pull the spring off and restore the size and shape ot the flattened part with pliers, and drill the new springs accordingly.
Take 2mm brass sheet and reduce it to 1.6mm by hammering it if you don’t have rollers in your fully equipped workshop to give it the necessary spring !