I’m considering getting a new flute (one more apart from my Olwell) and I have seen some options. But the question is not about what to choose; it’s about the rings on the flute.
The metal rings are on the flute to avoid cracking. The question is if the wooden rings have the same effect as metal ones. Normally wooden rings are made of hard woods as rosewood or blackwood;but as it is wood, I supose it is going to change its shape with humidity and temperature, so here is my doubt, if they change by the effect of external situations, how are the wooden rings to avoid cracking?
Hmmm, that’s a bit scary, Jon. The metal ring will support the underlying wood in the usual way, but what prevents it splitting the wooden ornamental ring in dry weather? The larger the diameter, the larger the shrinkage. A wooden ring will be much bigger than the slide diameter, and nowhere near as thick or long as the head or barrel.
Probably because I understand them and the regular woodwind repairers here don’t, I get a lot of wooden recorders brought to me for repair. The cheaper ones do not have artifical ivory or metal supporting rings - just bulges in the wood at the sockets. I see a lot of splits. These are straight-down-the-grain mechanical splits, not the angry eruptions produced by moisture-induced problems. I’d pay more and get the metal rings.
When I wrote the first message, I was thinking of Luc Verhoeven’s traversos. I don’t know if he uses the metal ring under the wooden one, but seems that he does not use it.
I have one flute from Luc (a Grenser) and I think it is a very good instrument. The ratio quality/price Luc’s flutes are offering are hard to match I beleive.
I saw only one antic flute intrument with wooden rings (a french 5 keys, boxwood with black wood rings). Some of the rings were cracked. But so are most of the ivory rings on the antic flutes. I guess we do not know how the imitation ivory rings will stand the test of time, but it is possible that they will crack too.
From my point of view, if my flute can survive 3 decades, I will be happy. Maybe I am too selfish but I am not concern about how it will look in 100 years. I think that if you take good care of the flute like following the break-in period and do regular oiling you will be fine for many many years with hard-wood rings. If ever there is a crack in a ring it should be easy and inexpensive for Luc or for another flute maker to turn a new ring for you.
Well, Terry, as usual, has about summed it up: Wooden rings without metal underneath won’t provide the support needed, and placing metal bands under the rings, will cause the wooden rings to crack.
Best to stick with metal, or plastic of some sort - although some of the imitation Ivories seem more durable than others…
Just out of curiosity, is it the thickness (or, more likely, the thin-ness) of the flute that makes it so vulnerable?
I’ve just seen a lot of recorders without rings, and without cracks. There are several instruments, recorders and flutes, in the von Huene catalog, for example, that are ringless. Are they all destined to crack?
I think the thinness is a major issue. We’re asking a lot from a material that is essentially a bunch of fine straws held together with a weak glue! Recorders and clarinets tend to have much thicker walls. I don’t think the recorders you mentioned are destined to crack - it’s not like the lined head scenario where you have opposing forces built in. But if there’s minor pressure applied - sat on in a chair for instance - a well supported socket might survive but a poorly supported one won’t.
The modern plastic artificial ivories are pretty strong and have no reason (that I’m aware of) to shrink with time or humidity. Real ivory shrinks more with reducing humidity than wood does, so that’s why you see so many old flutes with cracked ivory rings even though the wood below is intact. Needless to say, once cracked, they aren’t offering much support!
Hi Terry,
I wonder how much support that the wood gets from the artificial ivory material? When I used the stuff it doesn’t seem very ridgid, it is flexable and streches. Is this enough support for the socket? Or should these be backed with metal rings?
Jon
Terry did not say that at all, this is your interpretation, Loren. Mine is: there may be a risk of wooden rings on metal bands splitting, if the wood is allowed to dry out too much. But looking after the flute and keeping the humidity sufficiently up should eliviate any risk of shrinkage. The flute Dominic made for me is now over a year old, well loved and well used, and in great condition with no signs of cracks anywhere. Living in Scotland I do not worry about dry air conditions, since it seems to be constantly a minimum of 60% any time of the year. So I don’t need to use a humidor or whatever you call these air moisturisers.
Like Terry said there is no opposing forces built in. It is all the same wood and the different parts are swelling or contracting the same way with humidity and temperature.
When there are 2 different materials in contact, like wood and ivory or even 2 different kind of wood, they will not expand or contract at the same rate creating opposing forces, possibly leading to cracks.
Now like Terry said, a strong ring like a metal ring can bring protection when pressure is applied, like when one sat on the flute or when one try to force a tenon into a tight socket.
So the answer to your question is that this 250 year old boxwood flute has no crack probably because nobody sat on it or forced a tenon into a socket or applied any other kind of strong mechanical stress. Of course constant humidity and good oiling certainly help too .
Well, I hope it really has no craks. Maybe we should ask confirmation to Rick Wilson
Reading this thread, it occured to me that a lot of the old Scots used antler rings on their pipes and swore by them. Hans, have you ever seen antler rings? There is a man down the road that gives me 5 pickup truck loads of firewood each year in exchange for hunting deer on my mountain. So I called him and he said that it did not take too big a rack for the base to be bigger than 1 1/4 inches. I also was curious as to why one did not see antlers around the woods, sence they shed them each year. He said they shed one than the other so they are not good for the people who want them for trophies. He said some animals eat the antlers before they dry out and get hard. So he said he would drop some off. Jon, or anybody, would you be interested in turning some deer antler rings to see what they are like.
And does any one know how strong and durable antler rings are? Also, I have some vegtable-ivory. It is a small coconut-looking thing. They say it is hard to tell it from real ivory. I would think, though, if one was not going to use real ivory, synthetic ivory would be the second choice.
or when one try to force a tenon into a tight socket.
.