I actually tried to make a fife or two a while back. Where I went to take classes (The University of Minnesota) had several machine shops. One of them allowed me to use the lath and drill press for my project . All I really needed was the materials.
Trying to hack together some pieces on your lunch break and early in the morning is no way to build anything. In the end no cost for tooling, but the cost of a good fife in materials, and nothing that sounded or looked like a fife. I think next time I try to make a fife or piccolo I’m just going to make a head and attach it to a Clarke SweeTone or Generation body.
The point about a bow is a good one. The rule of thumb is that the bow should cost about as much as the instrument – so the bow that you get for the amount of a top keyless flute would go with a violin in the thousand-dollar range. Fiddles get WAY more expensive.
I’m guilty of having the flute-acquisition bug. With the whistle, it was some time after I’d bought the first dozen or two before I realized that my collecting was kind of a mask for my lack of ability. But I’m really busting my ass to learn the flute, to the point of taking vacation time to go to a teacher who is an hour away and only teaches during working hours.
Aside from a whistle a fiddle/bow combination is really the cheapest Irish instrument. With some luck you can still find a playable used fiddle and bow for a couple of hundred dollars. Compare that to the cost of a concertina, a set of pipes, a flute, or an accordion.
Many good Irish fiddlers are playing inexpensive fiddles. On a professional level many violins are bought and sold on the basis of how they look rather than how they play.
What is WITH that? I run into it with Larry all the time … “I’ll go 'oooooh, that fiddle she’s playing sounds AWESOME!” and he’ll say “yeah, but it doesn’t have as pretty a stain/grain/flamed back/chin rest/tuning pegs (or whatever the h***) as mine.” And meanwhile, EVERYONE hates his fiddle; it doesn’t matter that he coughed up $3500 for it; it sounds so awful I can’t stand to look at it so who cares if it’s pretty? And then he can pick up a student fiddle or something he found in a pawnshop for $300 and sound terrific on it, but will he give up the lame $3500 fiddle? Noooooo, because the B fiddle is too dark-colored or something ridiculous like that, even though it sounds a million percent better.
ARGH! That drives me crazy! I mean, beauty is as beauty does and all, but this I completely do not understand. You can’t see the stain or grain or pegs from 50 feet away anyway, but you sure can hear the result.
BTW, I agree Irish flutes are totally reasonable. But then again, I’m coming at this from the world of show horses, where the price of an Olwell will rarely even buy you the poop-end of a reasonable-quality show beastie.
And thank goodness we don’t have to feed flutes, either.
Is this in the Irish scene, or what? I’ve never known a professional violinist that bought their violin based primarily on how it looked. (Of course, I’m acquainted with classical violinists, not fiddlers).
Just to clarify: Obviously there are many things that factor into the cost of making an instrument (and selling it at a price which assures you can stay in business for more than a week), however my point here was to simply have a little fun and provide some insight (from the maker’s perspective) into the process.
I have just read a fair selection of nonsense.
It never has been the case that the recommended price for a bow is that of a violin it is to go with .
Remember when Menhuin bought his first Strad ?
He was given a fine Tourte. Quality the same .Value a small fraction.
I make bows, but would not expect a player to match a £4000 bow with a £4000 violin necessarily. £20,000 + more likely.
I have a £10,000 + cello bow, but a collector would buy it, or someone with better than a £10,000 'cello !
Loren seems to forget, from his sweatshop that good makers take years of practice, study and whatever they need to become good, and in those long years are acquiring rejecting and refining their equipment. Building it up slowly as they see opportunities and learn to use the stuff.
They make a lot of what they really need, and tend to spend their time using the same favourite bits.
Biggest problem, I reckon is the time needed to invest in making reamers if ones ideas on models or modifications are to be realised.
I doubt if the old fellows had great piles of gear, but few of them ever forged a good key. When they did they used a moderate amount of gear and a good eye.
Ward and Hudson were the mirscle workers, with some mystery ( perhaps out) workers at Rudalls doing the good stuff !
Apart from the fantastic Potters, of course, but not as keymakers !
Some poor fellow is aspiring to a six key flute.
I bought what I expect to be a French one last night on the internet for $60. May not be wonderful, but I bet it won’t be so bad either. It won’t come for a few days.
I have had a few of late, pretty cheap too. No need to lay out much.
He should be more positive in his thinking.
If he were to acquire a cheapish sound French flute he might discover that they tended not to send out junk, so a repadding and if necessary a little superglue could keep him happy for years !
I don’t know, Loren, but it ain’t much fun unless it makes sense.
Nothing personal, of course !
Overlapping is ofcourse a danger with all but short posts. The longer ones disappear in mid type. One would hope that the machine would not do that when entries are still being made !!!
However we all know ,unfortunately,that the US is cracking up !
This is more or less a perennial discussion. Someone wants to buy a flute, thinks they’re expensive, someone else says “good thing you don’t want to learn fiddle, because a good fiddle bow goes for $75,000”, then someone else says “it takes $5,000,000 of equipment to build flutes, and in average 325 days of hard work per instrument”. It’s always the same thing, like a well-rehearsed dance.
This is nonsense. There are great flutes for $100 or less. If you want a sure thing, then maybe $400 is what you’re aiming for. There are better flutes for $4,000. And there are flutes for a lot more, if you’re willing to pay for them. Some people get a kick out of buying and selling flutes, trading up to get their dream flute; others couldn’t care less, they just want to play.
Buy whatever flute you want. Chances are nobody will ever hear you over the din of the punters and the bodhran players anyway.
Back to the old fact that a great player can produce a great sound on any instrument.
I hear it on violins and flutes.
A player won’t buy his/her way to competent playing -other, perhaps, than by buying lessons, CDs or visits to good performances.!
Sorry if i irritated anybody with my previous post.
One thing that drives prices up – for new flutes – is keys. I think most people who make flutes are doing it because they like to work with wood; making the keys or having them made is an aggravation and definitely drives the prices up.
Solution? play traverso. Just one key to worry about, one that is of simple construction.
I felt very much solaced and calmed ( as usual ) by reading your post, Glauber.
I agree, in my ignorance, about the pleasure of simple flutes. The lower pitch too, is very pleasing.
And as I wrote the other day they can be quite cheap !
I used to think this way, but now i think that there are good players and bad players in both groups. Some people play very expensive instruments and are also good players; but those people would sound just as nice on a cheaper instrument. Of course some of the best Irish music players use instruments that are almost unplayable by normal people.
You must know at your age, Glauber, that normal people do NOT play Irish style flute !
I don’t say that good players do play cheap instruments. I suggest that they can sound very good on a mediocre instrument. I have often be amazed at the sound that comes out when virtuosi I have known pick up other peoples inferior instruments. Of course I am not allowing for what needs to happen in the concert hall with acoustic carrying problems.
