Okay maybe not the answer some folks were looking for. Well, the cost of wooden flutes comes up fairly often here, so I thought I’d post a little educational trivia question of sorts, for those who don’t have an inside look at the process, which may clarify things a bit. Here’s the question:
How many tools does it take to make a 5 piece keyless flute?
Take your best guess and feel free to list the tools you are counting ( hey, if you’re really feeling confident, list the prices for each tool). Here’s a hint: When we talk tools, we mean everything that one needs to complete the job - if oiling the flute is part of the process, then count oil as one tool. If the job of making a particular flute requires a custom made tool, then you must list all of the tools needed to make that custom tool.
I’ll ask flute makers, and andrew :roll: , to refrain from answering just yet, don’t want to spoil the fun for everyone else, and I imagine it’ll be fun to compare notes, and the number of tools each of us use, after the non-makers have taken their best guesses.
Ok, I’m gonna take a shot, but I know enough to know I’m probably leaving essential things out:
You have to have the wood blanks, and you have to have a place to season them.
You need a lathe to turn them on, and you’ll need to make a reamer to turn them with out of an old saw blade or something, as I don’t think reamers in the proper sizes are commercially available.
You’ll need saws to cut the blanks into sections, micrometers and measuring tools, the tools to shape the blanks on the lathe, and a drill press to drill the finger holes and the embouchure.
You’ll also need needle files for shaping and undercutting, and probably some sort of dremel or dentist’s drill for the embouchure work.
You’ll need cork or thread for the tenon, and sandpaper–lots of sandpaper of various grades. You’ll also need a cork for the headjoint.
You’ll need oil, as Loren mentioned, and a way to apply it.
You’ll also need plans to work from, and you’ll have to have all your ducks in a row as to just how to use all this stuff together to make a flute.
You’ll need a tuner, as well, and a probably an X-acto knife set as well.
Would it be possible to injection-mold delrin flutes? If so, that should bring down costs considerably - after the initial cost of making the mold, that is.
That absolutely doesn’t matter. Granted, it’s a lot of stuff, but it’s not what matters.
I’ve used lathes and reamers, drills and sandpaper, and passably well at that, but all you’d get from me is a stick with holes in it. Even with practice, if I was able to produce a really nice looking stick, it would still just be a stick.
It’s the ability to make it able to sing that’s the hard part–getting the fairies to move back in.
Hmm. Well a lathe obviously perhaps two one to rough out one to finish. Drill press for the holes. Collets to support the internal bore, reamers these need to be hand made so throw in the metal working and finishing gear for that. If the keys are block mounted then a milling machine would be handy. Wheels etc for polishing and final finish. The keys need to be forged so throw in most of a silversmiths gear for that. You then I suppose have to voice it so some sound gear to measure pitch accurately would be handy. But none of these are any use at all if you don’t have many years experience. And talking about years you will have to lay up your wood to season and rest it between processes.
All of which makes $3000.00 or there abouts cheap as chips.
I know you said keyless but I like keys!
I’m responding off the top of my head without having looked at any of the other responses.
1 lathe with tail stock
5 pieces of wood (if oil is a tool, so is the wood)
band saw
1 tool to rough turn the outside (would probably work for final turning)
up to 5 drill/rifle bits to rough bore the inside
5 reamers/drill bits to bore the inside
grinder/abrasive wheel to make the reamers and maintain the reamers and bits
up to 5 mandrels for fixturing for final outside turning
up to 9 drill bits for finger/embouchure/foot holes
drill press
vise, possibly a fixture for each piece that needs to be drilled (4)
dremel tool or equivalent and a few tools for shaping of the embouchure and undercutting finger holes
telescoping tubing for tuning slide
rings (about 4)
probably another tool for turning the rings
cork and adhesive for lapping
matte cutter for cork
cork for headpiece
various files, polishing grit, and sandpaper, stuff for oiling
maybe something special for shaping the crown
Big hollow stick with seven to nine holes. They probably grow that way half the time. I never thought of it that way till now. I’m cancelling my orders.
Man I feel like such a tool.
I would start with a gun drill (hollow drill) then move to a boring bar, and for a conical bore I would use an off set boring bar. The tone holes with a drill press. The last hole I would do by hand and not share the technique.
What are you suggesting, Loren, that a maker has to re-invest in all new tools every time he makes a flute, and that therefore the cost of tooling is a major contributor to the cost of every flute a maker produces?
As Peggy says “That absolutely doesn’t matter. Granted, it’s a lot of stuff, but it’s not what matters.”
Obviously what matters is the size and health of the woodpeckers the maker keeps at hand. Pileated for bore, redheaded for embouchure and some tone holes, and downy for the smaller tone holes.
Toss in one wild bore to rub against and polish the outside of the flute and you’re set.
I’m not going to venture an under-educated guess at the tools required, but I will say that compared to professional quality Boehm flutes, pro-quality simple-system flutes are a bargain. Compare, say $1500-$4000 (depending on keywork) to $6000-$12,000 (or more, depending on metals) for a handmade Boehm flute. And perfectly good simple-system flutes are available for under $1000.
I always thought that you were paying someone else to make mistakes!
You know, not just paying for the flute, but paying for all the destroyed pieces of wood before that.
This is part in jest, but part in truth, let me explain, If I could make a flute in 20 tries for less than the price of 20 wood blanks, I would try and the price I would be willing to pay for a flute of such quality. Now the longer a person has been making flutes (hopefully) he makes fewer major mistakes and starts making smaller and smaller ones. All the sudden it would take me at least 40 wood blanks to get to the same point so I pay more. After a certain pint I could not make something better for cheaper without sponsorship and so I start selling my first “Okay” flutes in hopes that I can make one that I like and, low and behold, I have become a flute maker.
The other thing is that the more you work with a material the better you understand it. Mistakes in metal are different than mistakes in wood. Wood has grain, most metals will not, this will effect how you treat things.
Maybe someone can say it more eloquently than I can, but this is how I see the cost. It has nothing to do with the tools that can be used to make thousands of flutes. A computer hard drive has many parts that need to be machined to a high level of precision (think nanometers or less) and the tooling needed is very expensive, but hard drives are cheap because of the number of times that the equipment is used to make hard drives. Continuing on this train of thought, a mass produced Boehm would cost much more to tool up for than any of the simple system flutes. The problem is that when craftsmanship is involved, you set up a problem of supply and demand. Because there is only one person making a certain name of flutes, you just can’t crank out thousands of flutes and drive the costs per flute down.
It is kind of funny in a way because when Concertinas were popular they were mass produced for affordable prices, much the iPod of the day, but now all you could hope to do is find a used one and have it rebuilt. (do not play one just what I heard)
So if you want flute prices to go down, teach someone the Irish flute and create more demand. Someday you too could be playing Irish music on a Yamaha simple system.
You remind me of the time some years ago when the Japanese decided to take over the world’s best maker of trumpet mouthpieces.
On asking to see the production facilities they were taken down his garden path to his small shed.
They had to rethink their plans!
I agree with TinTin.
Irish flutes are dang cheap. Wouldn’t the cost of a professional level violin bow get you a concert level flute? At least one?
I wonder if the fact that the best flutes are so affordable doesn’t hurt the overall flute scene by shifting the focus away from the music.
I sometimes think we jump around too much. I had two years on my Dixon before I got my Reviol, and in truth the Dixon is still capable of more than I am.
But, I do cruise the makers pages with a dream of a medium holed six-key…
I don’t know, what was the question?
How many tools? More than I have.
