Who is right?

Whistle
1

Hello, boys and girls.

Disclaimer: There is no real point to this, nothing new or shocking or even particularly interesting, just something I’ve observed lately.

My brother asked me the other day which guitar was “best.” I told him, of course, that there isn’t a best guitar, just different ones. Some for their sound, some for their beauty, some for their ease of play, and yes, some for their price.

So. What whistle is the best? There’s a pleasure in a fine, handcrafted wooden instrument–the sound, the looks, the work that went into it. You can almost see a craftperson’s heart, touch thier soul in such work.

There is just as fine a pleasure listening to Paddy Maloney wowing the crowds with a $5 Generation.

I was just reading the LoTR threads, which I think teach us a valuable lesson about music and so perhaps aren’t as off-topic as they seem. Some, including my dear mother, loved the film because they loved the book so dearly. Others were appalled at the film for the exact same reason. Some commented on the sweaping special effects and touching close-ups, while others lamented the excessive huge swooping scenes and melodramatic face shots. Who is right?

So with music. Some performers of “Irish” music are praised to the heavens for pushing the envelope and simultaneously criticized to the nether regions for abandoning their roots. Who is right?

One of my collegues here in Lander adamantly teaches her students that “rap” is not music because it has no melody. I asked her about West African Drumming…it isn’t music either, then? Hmmm…she didn’t have an answer for that, because the real issue is that she just doesn’t like rap. Neither do I, and I won’t play it in my classroom, but I won’t say it isn’t music. That is for my students to decide. Who is right?

So, IS LoTR a great movie, or a travesty? Are Dixons better than Hoovers? Are Generations elegantly simple works of art, or a waste of good plumbing pipe? Is there really such a thing as “strictly traditional,” and are people who insist on trad playing stodgy squares or faithful keepers of the flame? Who is right?

Well, you are, of course.

The beautiful thing is, I don’t have to agree with you in order to be right, too. :slight_smile:

Such is the beauty of any creative endeavor. While it is fun and worthwhile to discuss what makes “good” or “bad” art, the simple fact is that it affects everyone a bit differently.

Play what you love, on an instrument you love. If anyone is listening and happens to love it, too, you have made a connection. If not, you have made music you love, which will make you bigger inside, and so is never a waste.

I hope I didn’t bore anyone too badly. I’m sure there’s a point in there somewhere.
Good night. :slight_smile:

Tom

2

Hi Tom. I agree with everything you say, but there are practical issues to be considered. Since celtic music sessons often happen in places where there are no power outlets, electric instruments are not really a good Idea, but they work great in a band setting. If youy are singing harmonies, you need to know what note the other singers are going to hit next. Follow your heart through your music, but stay well grounded in reality - but don’t overdo the reality thing either. Music is meant to be fun. It is meant to be played with as well as played. That’s the only musical rule there is. If you’re not enjoying it, you’re not doing it right.

[ This Message was edited by: nickb on 2001-12-29 05:57 ]

[ This Message was edited by: nickb on 2001-12-29 05:58 ]

3

WyoBadger wrote…

One of my collegues here in Lander adamantly teaches her students that “rap” is not music because it has no melody. I asked her about West African Drumming…it isn’t music either, then? Hmmm…she didn’t have an answer for that, because the real issue is that she just doesn’t like rap. Neither do I, and I won’t play it in my classroom, but I won’t say it isn’t music. That is for my students to decide. Who is right?..


Tom

We seem to have little choice in the matter as Rap (hip-hop) has filtered down to be a very part of our daily lives. Try watching some television. It’s in so many commercials, movie soundtracks and TV shows, especially media that’s geared for young children. Have you seen any morning kids cartoons? Alvin & the Chipmunks rap now, same for Winnie the Poo. Disney’s gone hip-hop too. I’ve seen educational shows aimed at pre-schoolers that are rap influenced.
What will you do ‘when’ Rap becomes ingraned in all your schools educational media?

4

The best instrument is the one you like the best !! My personal “best” whistles vary from day to day, tune to tune. Right now, the “best” is the ebony one I finished making last night…

5

On 2001-12-29 07:59, brewerpaul wrote:
Right now, the “best” is the ebony one I finished making last night…

Cool!

:slight_smile: Jessie

6

What will you do ‘when’ Rap becomes ingraned in all your schools educational media?

Get over it. As much as I abhor rap “music,” it’s not going to go away. The problem with the music industry is that good, creative music does not survive. It simply does not. If something can’t be quickly classified and dumped into an easily-marketable package, then the band/singer/whoever is dumped like yesterday’s garbage. The general masses listen to whatever is hyped up. Kids don’t buy music for the music, they buy it for the image, for the “look” associated for it. Do you really think anybody actually thinks that britney spears crap is art? The stuff is awful, but the records will still go triple platinum in a week because ole titney has dozens of advertising execs ready to dope the masses into thinking it’s the best thing since bread came sliced.

The only thing you can do is NOT listen to any of this garbage. Listen to music that you LIKE, no matter how obscure it is. Keep on playing your old Irish tunes. At least there’s some soul in that…

(can you tell how much I hate the record industry yet?)

7

As I mentioned… it’s everywhere.

8

I’m a firm believer in Peter Schickele’s assertion that, “All musics are created equal, or as Duke Ellington put it, ‘If it sounds good it IS good.’” The way I had always put it is that the best of any type of music is still good music. I don’t like country music in general, but Johnny Cash is simply great. I don’t like rap either, but I’ve heard some that’s really wonderful, creative, and musical.

Lumping all rap artists together is kind of like lumping all modern orchestral composers together. For every Arnold Schonberg there’s an Alan Hovhaness. (ie, for every noisy composer, there’s a soothing one) To be perfectly honest, there are a lot of people out there putting out totally uninspired renditions of traditional music trying to capitalize on the current “Celtic” movement.

Rap music has been around for a long time, at least since the 1930’s. It was not created by a bunch of music executives, nor pushed to the forefront by a bunch of them. Rap artists had been trying to get recording contracts for decades, and had been popular in inner cities, especially on the east coast, for many years before any were signed to major labels. Blondie’s success with Rapture, which they recorded to give exposure to the rap music they’d been listening to for years, was largely responsible for this. The record executives were RESPONDING to the popularity and marketing potential of rap, they were being anything but proactive. All they did was take urban music and make it available in the suburbs and country.

Charlie

9

Oh, I know that all the mainstream crap had its roots in the underground.

Even “grunge” and “alternative” were once real forms of music. They’d been buzzing around under the spotlight for YEARS before the record industry put a choke-hold on it, watered it down to pablum, and fed it to the masses. Nirvana didn’t invent the stuff.

The pre-" 90’s grunge boom" grunge music was actually fairly creative, and was certainly different than most of what was going on around it. It mostly grew out of the punk rock scene, and didn’t start out quite so “grungy.”

Hip-hop started out as something real and creative, but, it, like all other forms taken by the record industry, was gradually watered down till it had no taste. The problem is the fact that once an music genre has been pulled into the spotlight, it can’t return to its original pure form, mostly because of the here-today-gone-later-today nature of popular music. And once music has been in the spotlight, the underground typically won’t have anything to do with it anymore.

well none of that made sense… Oh well.

10

All of which proves my point.

By the way, what was my point again?

I listen to and play what I like. If I ever hear a rap band that really says something to me, I’ll probably like it (and I get to choose what music is used in my classroom! :slight_smile: ). Likewise if Brittany Spears (who, in my opinion, has the most appropriate initials in the industry :laughing: ) is miraculously stricken with the ability to produce music with some guts.

But all of this is my opinion. Someone who sincerely likes Brittany Spears? Fine by me, as long as they don’t force me to listen along. :slight_smile:

Have fun!
Tom

11

On 2001-12-29 19:56, TelegramSam wrote:
Oh, I know that all the mainstream crap had its roots in the underground.

Even “grunge” and “alternative” were once real forms of music…
Hip-hop started out as something real and creative, but… The problem is the fact that once an music genre has been pulled into the spotlight, it can’t return to its original pure form, mostly because of the here-today-gone-later-today nature of popular music. And once music has been in the spotlight, the underground typically won’t have anything to do with it anymore…

Can one actually say that just because something is “underground”, it’s good and creative, and if it’s mainstream, it’s crap and uncreative? And how much music is actually “pure”?

My approach to music:
1.“I like/hate something because I just do”.
2. “I may not generally like this genre but from what I can tell, XXX piece is pretty good if I liked that sort of music.”
3. “X person is pretty talented and the music is great, OR, but the music is terrible and a waste of the talent”
4. “X person is not very good, but this piece is well written/arranged, and it carries the day”
5. “I usually like X person and respect his/her body of work, but this piece sucks” (and vice versa)

12

On 2001-12-30 06:54, tuaz wrote:

Can one actually say that just because something is “underground”, it’s good and creative, and if it’s mainstream, it’s crap and uncreative? And how much music is actually “pure”?

I never claimed that. There’s a lot of crap in the “underground” music scene. There’s more crap than good stuff, actually. It’s just that there is a much higher occurance of good, creative music in the “underground” scene than there is in the radio world.

And there will occasionally be a really good band to break into the mainstream. They’re just really few and far between. If you don’t beleive me, just turn on the radio to any top-40 station. Listen and hear just how much crap there is.

13

I can enjoy Brittany Spears if I keep the sound turned off!

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On 2001-12-30 19:51, Tom_Gaul wrote:
I can enjoy Brittany Spears if I keep the sound turned off!

PERVERT!!! :wink:

15

Yes, but isn’t that Britney’s target audience? Perverts, I mean.

16

I’m just fond of the Boa Constrictor she sometimes wears around her neck! Strange yes, but certainly not perverted!

17

I’m listening a lot to country and
western–the quality of the musicianship
is extraordinary. A lot is formulaic,
but a fair amount I find moving. Many
of these people
are writng about what they know and
sometimes the songs are about stuff
that no one else will touch. Just heard
a song on the way home tonight called
‘She misses him’ about a woman who
is caring for her husband with
Alzheimers. Oh geez.

18

Jim,

I agree that country western music can get as trite as bad rock music but when it’s good it can also produce songs that capture human emotions and heartbreak as well as some of the great operas! Certainly the songs of Hank Williams are right up with the best ever produced. Maybe that’s why country music is so popular in Ireland and is having an influence on contemporary Irish songs. The lyrics of country music deal with lost love, loneliness and every bad thing that can ever happen to an ordinary person. Then they can deal with the joy of overcoming trouble with the help of a special angel! Like us they are “such stuff as dreams are made on”! Unlike us they may be more lasting.

Best wishes, Tom

19

Several months back, PBS did an episode of Frontline titled “The Merchants of Cool” in which they looked at the whole MTV music culture thing. Really interesting stuff. They’ll re-air it eventually.

At any rate, I personally think that any time you take a creative artist and start insisting on a certain number of new pieces by a certain date, you are going to get a more anemic form of art. This is true of music as well as visual arts. I suspect that many of the bands that start out as creative underground bands end up at the mercy of recording contracts that say they need to produce quantity, not quality.

Some bands seem to resist this. My brother is a fan of Phish and tells me that they were reluctant for years to actually record their music. I wonder if it wasn’t because they were concerned about losing musical integrity with a recording company in charge.

-Patrick

20

I have to agree with Telegram Sam, and most everyone else on Britney Spears. Interestingly though I did see a video of her on VH1, showing when she was on Star Search as a girl. She was actually belting out a song pretty well. I guess that she can sing, she just chooses not to since that pouty, whiny sound apparently sells CDs, though why I’m sure I don’t know. I don’t like her music either and since I’m female, even with the sound down, she doesn’t do much for me! Probably several years from now, she’ll be on a VH1 Where Are They Now special, like Tiffany, the Bay City Rollers, and other flashes in the pan. Or just maybe she’ll show us her voice one day and mature when she gets too old to flash the belly-button.

Some of the hiphop singers are actually good vocalists, I just don’t relate to it since I grew up in the rural south, not in an urban area. I like country more as I age, but I still prefer it mixed with blues or rock. I don’t enjoy the watered-down crossover of Faith Hill and Shania Twain. I do like country with bluegrass/old-time touches, like the Dixie Chicks and O Brother Where Art Thou soundtrack. That music is timeless even if not mainstream, though O Brother did well despite being somewhat ignored by the mainstream country industry. I do dig some of the alternative 90s stuff, like Sarah McLachlan and Sheryl Crow, just before rap/hiphop began to dominate the airwaves.

So, I’m officially not cool/hip/whatever anymore since watching Dick Clark (what is he, 80 now?! :slight_smile: Probably the same way my mother felt when I liked AC/DC in high school. Partly a generational thing, partly just different tastes.

[ This Message was edited by: cj on 2002-01-02 14:29 ]