Whistle Traditions

Whistle
1

In conexion with the recent Europeans thread, I was wondering if those whistlers who are not from/based on Ireland or any areas with strong Irish influence, do play traditional music from their countries on the whistle.

I´ve seen posts by English, Danish, Finns, Belgians… Do you play or have you tried to play any kind of your traditional music?

In my case, I´ve played tunes from different traditions (and no traditional), including some from Spanish traditions (Aragonese, Asturian, Castillian, Galician…)though I haven´t try to develop a particular “Iberian” style of playing, maybe because, as a traditional Scottish fiddler said once - name forgotten -, there´s no such a thing like Regional or National styles, but personal styles: one person develops a personal style, he´s good and popular, he´s from X region, he´s imitated by people from the area and then, we´ve got a regional style… (Well I think I lost my point here, anyway, you know, just a thought…)

Manuel Waldesco

2

Hi,
since it’s not a diatonic instrument, it’s hard to play music other than celtic. There’s not that much music using modal scales anymore. But even folkmusic from around here (Belgium) and also France, Spain, Italy, and part of other countries have celtic influence for the reason Celts used to live all over the continent here. So, I think some of the folk music from around europe could be played on the irish whistle and flute. I’ll stick with the celtic(mostly Irish) though, in a celtic style as I heard it from others.
Cheers

3

Well, this covers a lot of ground, y’know. My musical traditions are largely classical music enjoyed by my late Dad. I am, of course, many generations American. I have tried classical pieces by Chopin, Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, and Debussy. I also have traditions of my faith and play a number of Christian hymns on my whistle. One, I discovered, bears a strong resemblance to The Star of the County Down, I assume it is from the same tune. I play The Star-Spangled Banner, too, but I’m careful where I play it… with my current skills I could offend someone. :wink:

4

The Clarke Tin Whistle Book by Bill Ochs has some nice traditional English tunes, and Scottish and American too, and I’m not averse to learning them.

That said, as I’m unlikely to be able to use them in a group context, they’d have limited use for now. Heck, who am I kidding, my whole repertoire has limited use, but it’s great for scaring cats!

While we’re on the subject of scaring cats, (neat OT-link, huh?) I noticed recently that you don’t have to be whistling through a whistle to upset them - I was lip-whistling a tune recently, and it had the same effect! Two happy sleepy cats zipped out of earshot faster than I could complete the tune.

5

On 2002-08-21 04:21, Dewhistle wrote:
I also have traditions of my faith and play a number of Christian hymns on my whistle. One, I discovered, bears a strong resemblance to The Star of the County Down, I assume it is from the same tune.

The following is quoted from http://www.contemplator.com/folk2/star.html :

The oldest copy of this tune is Gilderoy, which appears in Musick for Allan Ramsay’s Collection of Scots Songs [Tea Table Miscellany] by Alexander Stuart (c 1726). Gilderoy also appeared in Thomas D’Urfey’s Pills to Purge the Melancholy III (1707), although that version is less recognizable as this tune.* The tune has been used for numerous songs, including Dives and Lazarus, The Murder of Maria Martin, and Claudy Banks. In addition, the tune is used for several English and American Hymns and Carols.

6

Contrary to Sweetone above, a lot of whistles were manufactured in France during the 19th century, I owned two and they were quite nice. I have a book by Belgian music collector Herman DeWitt and he has photgraphs of a whole collection of whistles he ‘collected’ from old people in Flanders, some french made but also various types of locally made wooden ones.

7

On 2002-08-20 20:20, sweetone wrote:
Hi,
since it’s not a diatonic instrument, it’s hard to play music other than celtic. There’s not that much music using modal scales anymore.

Well, I have to disagree, Irish music (there´s no such a think as “Celtic” music in musical terms)can be modal and diatonic. Most of Irish tunes are in Ionian mode, others are in Aeolian: both modes exist in the tonal system like “Major” and “Minor” scales.

It´s true that we find also other modes, mainly Dorian and Mixolydian, and the various Hexatonic and Pentatonic ones.

But this also happens in other European (and non-European) traditional music. (Bulgaria, Spain, France, Norway…)

But even folkmusic from around here (Belgium) and also France, Spain, Italy, and part of other countries have celtic influence for the reason Celts used to live all over the continent here.

Right, but what you call “Celtic” music has nothing to do with the many cultural groups called Celtic in Ancient Times. Traditional music as we know nowadays has its roots in a more recent world (mainly 18th and 19th c).

The affinities in between European music are the same that in culture: a long history of interrelations, cultural exchanges or impositions, etc…, nothing to do with an hypothetical Celtic empire (an idea originated in 18th C)

However, I could agree in that some of the characteristics of Irish music isolate it from mainland Europe, including Brittany and Galicia (while others don´t).

Cheers,

Manuel Waldesco

8

On 2002-08-21 06:54, Peter Laban wrote:
Contrary to Sweetone above, a lot of whistles were manufactured in France during the 19th century, I owned two and they were quite nice. I have a book by Belgian music collector Herman DeWitt and he has photgraphs of a whole collection of whistles he ‘collected’ from old people in Flanders, some french made but also various types of locally made wooden ones.

Hi Peter, I´m very interested in that information. From time to time I´m doing some research on whistle history. I´ve heard before of whistles made outside the British Isles (Germany, Spain) but the only Old whistles I´ve seen have been British.

I wonder if you could post the photographs and any other information regarding whistle making and playing in Europe. (If there´s no much interest on the forum about it feel free to use my personal address, mwal@wanadoo.es)

Thanks,

Manuel Waldesco

9

For anyone who wants to explore non-Irish/Scottish traditional music, this link has loads from all over Europe - lots of strange tunes in 13/8… :slight_smile:
http://www.leeds.ac.uk/music/Info/RRTuneBk/tunebook.html
Enjoy!
Deirdre

10

On 2002-08-20 20:20, sweetone wrote:
Hi,
since it’s not a diatonic instrument, it’s hard to play music other than celtic.

I always thought diatonic was opposed to chromatic. So the whistle would be diatonic and, whthout half holing, not chromatic. The OED seems to support this. Definition 2 in my version says “using only the notes proper to one key without chromatic alteration.” All the modes used in Irish music use the notes of one particular scale, ordinarily without chromatic notes.

Steve

11

I play welsh, scottish, breton and english tunes, and have learnt a few eastern european tunes on the fiddle ( I found they didn’t really suit the whistle, too many accidentals).

Jo.

12

Let’s see, I play tunes that are considered Appalachian, which really translates as Scots via colonial America, klezmir (Eastern European/Yiddish), Southern Baptist gospel music (my yiddishe mamma isn’t thrilled) and N.American this and that (sort of country western, some modern folkie stuff (Pete Seeger, Woody Guthrie)).

13

Ontario, Metis, Cape Breton fiddle tunes(particularly all of those great A fiddle tunes)all work wonderfully on whistle…you have to half hole the G#, and occassionally the D#…not strictly diatonic, but close. But my favorites are the Quebecois tunes…and they began mostly as fiddle or accordian tunes, but translate very well to whistle/flute.

14

A clarification:

Scott’s correct above (aren’t you relieved?). The whistle IS diatonic, meaning it’s basically based on one scale. It is not Chromatic, meaning it can play all those annoying notes in between the scale degrees. :slight_smile:

Tom (your only ever-so-slightly uptight music teacher)

15

I’m not sure this is what you mean, but I first got one for playing American folk music, especially Civil War era, back when the only Irish tune I could play was Danny Boy. Some would say that that’s STILL the only tune I can play, but I think candid can mean ‘cruel’ far too frequently, don’t you?

EDIT: Of course, most ‘American’ folk music of that era really IS mostly Celtic music.

[ This Message was edited by: Chuck_Clark on 2002-08-22 14:24 ]

16

On a D whistle fingering, if you keep the B hole covered (ie never play c) and move the e and f fingers together (ie never play f) you can play it like a native american flute. I believe Give Me Your Hand is an example of a tune you can play in this fashion, it just happens to work. Though I tried playing it on my NA flute last year and I didn’t get it right, hehe

17

You might want to check out this thread:

http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?topic=5392&forum=1

for some thoughts sort-of pertaining to the original question.

Tom