On 2003-02-19 22:21, Mrs. James wrote:
ummmmmm… ordering more whistles James?
sing another song, love… please?the credit card is full
for the Hammy-wish fulfilled
and though the music that you make
is beautiful for its sake
the wallet is mighty thin
To cater to your whistling whims >
… At least this week.
Welcome to the Forum, Shannon.
Ok, since there was a post regarding density and stability…
I should restate that the type of wood (density) and the THICKNESS of the wood used, would definately have to make a difference. Not only does it make a difference on the NA flutes I’ve made, but it also makes a noticeable difference in the aluminum whistles I make. The thicker the wall, the less resonant (brighter) it is.
Still sounds cool and all, but as I’ve said before… my personal preference is a variably mellow, with a tad bright tone to it. Therefore a medim to thin wall is needed. DENSITY makes a difference. More dense, thinner wall tolerances, etc.
All statements above are conditional to the materials used by the said maker. These statements do not necessarily reflect the opinions of any other persons. No animals were injured during this evaluation, nor any properties damaged. 
Take care,
John
EDITED: for temporary eech inspediment due to typographical mis-coordination. 
[ This Message was edited by: McHaffie on 2003-02-20 01:25 ]
[ This Message was edited by: McHaffie on 2003-02-20 01:27 ]
On 2003-02-19 17:40, chas wrote:
but I have no regrets getting a bocote whistle from him. Think rosewood or cocobolo with a finer, more complex brass-colored grain.
my cocobolo will soon be heading across the atlantic, hehehe
Just quoting Sankt Theoböhm the Bald, of what he published in 1871. I’ll translate as best I can.
“For wood flutes, I usually take cocus wood or South American grenadilla. The first, of black or reddish-brown colour, is especially reccomendable for its brilliant sound, but does contain a resin which - quite exceptionnally - may induce a rash of the lips. To circumvene this problem, and also to get a sound both clear and brilliant in the high tones, many will prefer black grenadilla. For ebony and boxwood, these are used only in low-cost instruments.”
I guess one should comment on the names of some woods at the time. Ebony was cheap, with Africa being mercelessly timbered.
Black grenadill is what we’d call African blackwood to-day (Dalbergia melanoxylon i.e. black wood).
However, the South American (in the mouth of a German and French meaning Latin America generally) Grenadill Boehm refers to as his second favorite could be what’s refered nowadays as Palisander (Germany, France) i.e. Rosewood in English (Dalbergia stevensonii and remains a favorite of German recorder makers for their high ends. But it could just as well be Cocobolo or any other Dalbergia out of Latin America…
Cocus wood is well, cocus wood, or American Ebony, or Red Ebony, and reported as allergogenic since early 19th century.
Note that all these woods here are classified as toxic (to some extent) to-day, though Cocus keeps the worst reputation, and seems to be shied away from most woodwinds makers catalogs…
See for toxicity reference: http://bodd.cf.ac.uk/BotDermFolder/BotDermL/LEGU.html
Finally, I’ll mention that Michael Grinter recently wrote me “I am making nearly all of my whistles from Cocobolo now”.
Gotta chime in here…
I agree with Glenn Schultz that the choice of wood does not make that much difference in the sound of a whistle, as long as you use a very hard, reasonably smooth, tight grained wood. It all seems to be in the voicing. I’ve made as many as 3 “identical” whistles in one batch and yet had them come out sounding subtly different. The voicing is all done by hand ( at least on mine) and as such tiny differences creep in-- windway a tad wider/narrower, blade angle a little different, etc. It only takes a couple of thousandths of an inch to influence the sound of a whistle.
Olivewood is one of my current favorite woods. It turns beautifully, almost like plastic. Even without applying a finish, the surface is smooth and glossy. Also, it smells wonderful, at least while I’m working the wood. This, unfortunately, diminishes in time. Can’t vouch for longterm stability, but I made one for myself about 2 months ago, and it’s still going very strong. This wood has been used for recorders quite a bit by very reputable makers who probably would not use it if it had any major problems.
On 2003-02-20 05:18, Zubivka wrote:
Just quoting Sankt Theoböhm the Bald, of what he published in 1871. I’ll translate as best I can.“. . .For ebony and boxwood, these are used only in low-cost instruments.”
I should note that boxwood was the favored wood for flutes until keys became common. The move away from boxwood had nothing to do with sound, only with the ability to put keys on the flutes. I have a keyed boxwood, and the keys are block-mounted rather than post-mounted.
I suppose balsa wood would be right out–unless, of course, you wanted a whistle that would fly. 
On 2003-02-20 06:31, brewerpaul wrote:
Gotta chime in here…
It only takes a couple of thousandths of an inch to influence the sound of a whistle. …
Now THAT is for sure and for certain, whether it be wood, metal or otherwise… Finger holes, tuning slides, necks.. all consistently replicable.. windway, plug placement, etc.. VERY VERY touchy.
Take care,
John
Hello…
On the subject of maple…I own two maple Native American flutes (one striped the other birdseye). Maple NA flutes are known for a mellow, warm sound. I have played Ebony NA flutes and they have a much more sharp, chrisp sound. Ebony is extreamly hard and vibates very little when played (at least with the NA flutes I have played). I can see that with very hard woods such as ebony there would be a small diffrence between woods for whistles, but with woods like maple which are hard, but not as hard as ebony the diffrence may be more noticable.
True, Sage.
One thing that could me mentioned too is antique flutes, and more-over, recorders are quite thick-walled (or narrow-bore) while modern wood whistles have often very thin walls (typically Grinter) even if there are notable exceptions like Bleazey and Shaw.
Thin walls would logically claim harder, denser woods.
Apparently, Theoböhm the Bald actually drew a lot from this consideration for his conversion to metal (silver) rather than wood. The other aspects were the finish (smoothness) of the bore, and final weight (in favor of metal…).
wood for a whistle? as i recently posted, i got a new sweetheart “professional” D about 3 weeks ago. $135 for a northern birch laminate. good laminates have the layers glued with an acrylic, so you get something with the stability of a polymer and the looks of wood. to me, wood has a bit of a sustain, as well. it plays very nicely indeed. also, about 25 years ago or so i bought an olivewood kung recorder. beautiful wood and very nice sound.
On 2003-02-21 22:28, tinuviel wrote:
…about 25 years ago or so i bought an olivewood kung recorder. beautiful wood and very nice sound.
25 years ? You’re safe : time out, we can’t sue you any more. 
Thanks you all! Lots of good comments.
On 2003-02-19 18:06, Doc Jones wrote:
Have Glenn or Paul make you a whistle from whatever wood makes your heart go fast. You won’t be disappointed. >
Yeah. That’s the trick isn’t it? Whatever wood makes your heart go fast. Been there… but it’s looking like I’ll have to go with another. Still not really decided… maybe bloodwood? Does anyone have a whistle made from that, if so what’s it like? Oh dear, so many good woods.
All this has brought one of those wild chancey ideas to mind. Is cottonwood a hardwood and has anyone ever heard of making a whistle from that? There is a very large, old cottonwood tree at the farm that I grew up on that would be kind of cool to have a whistle from for sentimental reason. Two possible problems though. One, is the wood even a suitable kind? Two, the tree has died and been pulled down. It has a huge trunk, the question with it would be if cottonwood wood would work, is this wood still solid within the trunk or has it begun to rot? I’ve not checked it so I’m not sure what it’s like anymore, but the memory of this tree does hold a special place for me… so it makes me wonder if there is a possibility here. Any thoughts?
I generally prefer metals and plastics, but love African blackwood for wooden whistles. I find that it holds up best, requires least maintenance, and provides a wood so dense that it’s close to metal or plastic in sound. It’s also quite beautiful when set off by sterling silver or any other ferrules.
I say generally, because I do still enjoy my TW, Busman, (Abells covered above), and Grinters.
Cheers,
Philo
just a further word on the northern birch laminate that sweetheart uses. birch is very hard and fine grained. these laminates are used alot for flooring and cabinets: excellent properties, but not that attractive. the lamination, since it uses an acrylic glue, should make them pretty impervious to moisture, also the combination of hard, fine grained wood with a polymer glue should make them pretty vibration free and allow for thin walls. the new sweetheart, by the way, has a curved wind path in the fipple.
25 years ago? well, that was a guess. it could have been longer!
On 2003-02-22 13:04, Sunnywindo wrote:
Thanks you all! Lots of good comments. >It has a huge trunk, the question with it would be if cottonwood wood would work, (…)…
Any thoughts?
Pickin up cotton
Za pain in the bottom
Owwww Looord!
Let me timber
That cottonwood tree…
Sounds like a great idea for a blues low whistle! Don’t forget a lot of chiff and breathiness! Ask Wombat for full details on the tone and scale… (or search it here, round Autumn last year).
Beside, you’ll never have moisture problems with a kleenexwood whistle…
I’ve made a couple of Bloodwood whistles, and liked working with it. It has a nice smooth grain and finishes nicely. It truly is a dark, blood red. In time, it may turn more brown, but I’ve never kept one around long enough to see that happen.
Denser woods tend to be closer grained and less porous, and so are less prone to instability due to radical changes in humidity.
Ebony seems to me to be the wood that makes instruments lacking in character and color. I like the sound of blackwood and have had good luck with the long term stability of blackwood instruments.
Boxwood makes a nice sounding instrument, and plays even better after time.
That’s one of the things that makers aren’t necessarily taking into account - that the character of a wood instrument might change after it leaves their hands.
I’m currently lusting after a Healy fife in purpleheart. Skip got some purpleheart timbers that were left over from building the replica of the Amistad. It’s a gorgeous wood.
What about snakewood? It is very beautiful but I understand that its dust is quite hazardous when it’s being lathed or sanded. Has anyone ever heard of a whistle made from it?
Ok, since there has evolved ideas on metals, etc. I will have to put my $.02 in here…
Wall thickness, type of metal, makes a very noticeable difference. In some cases a HUGE difference.
Consistent shape and size does not make everything equal if you are dealing with different materials. (ok, just don’t go there.)
thinner the wall, more mellow and resonant tone. Thiscker the wall, the more brighter or possibly solid the tone.
Yes, windway design, blade angle, overall fipple - mouthpiece design makes a very large impact, but I will still hold w/ my experience using different metals (copper, brass, aluminum, steel (gawd was that awful to work with!), etc.)) that material makes a noticeable difference.
An physics does apply to this idea as well. So I stand on my original ground… I think that no matter what materials you work with, whether it be wood, metal, plastic, or otherwise, that you will in fact have variations in tone or ‘flavors’ (I like that definition, whoever used that) AND of course you will have varying degrees of how much that change is per material. Ok, everyone got that? Good, cuz I’m not sure!
OK! I’ll shut up now. Thank you for your time and efforts regarding my rambling
Nite!
John