What are your opinions about rosewood
as a flute wood? I’m playing a rosewood
flute and I’m pretty impressed by
the singing quality, rather like
the sound it lends to guitars with
rosewood back and sides.
I wonder if it is underated.
What do you think?
Nope, it is not under rated: Rosewood isn’t as tight grained as many other woods like Boxwood, Grenadilla, Ebony, and so on, thus it doesn’t tend to finish as well, and so leaves a less acoustically desirable bore surface (unless one uses a filler of some type.)
Rosewood is wonderful when used for guitar backs and sides, but as has been discussed ad nauseum on numerous occasions, the acoustics of a flutes and guitars differ dramatically. Even so, it has been stated by more than one custom guitar maker who has done it, that Grenadilla (yes, the same Grenadilla we use for flutes) when used as the wood for back and sides of acoustic guitars, is superior soundwise to Brazilian Rosewood (pretty much considered THE tonewood for acoustic guitar production.) Why then don’t you see acoustic guitars made from Grenadilla? Less than one Grenadilla log in a thousand is large enough to produce a slab of wood big enough to make a guitar back. This means the cost of materials is so high, it’s prohibitive. Not to mention that an acoustic guitar with back and sides of Blackwood is very heavy.
No Jim, that superior rosewood flute sound is all in your head, but then that’s all that’s important anyway, right?
Loren
I suppose so.
I have two rosewood flutes, a Sweetheart G
and a Sweetheart D. Looking inside the
G I can see the grain, which gives the bore
a rough look–as you say.
But, gee, they sound good. I wonder
what topnotch D flutes made of
rosewood sound like?
I know Dave Copley offers rosewood flutes.
Anybody have something, like, expensive,
made of rosewood? With a lined head,
maybe?
I have to confess that I increasingly feel
the Sweetheart rosewood flute is a
contender among all-wood flutes twice its price.
The narrow bore gives it focus, I think,
and the combination
of focus plus the singing sound of rosewood
is very nice.
I also get the feeling that Sweetheart
flutes, while not terribly disrespected,
may be underrated.
Oh, well, eccentric, that’s me.
I know some guy who made a gazebo out of African Blackwood, pretty expensive gazebo and I have thought about chopping off a part and giving it to Jon C. to turn… :roll:
I thought I read that Olwell makes a slideless rosewood flute as a less expensive option, and I thought someone on this board had one - perhaps they could comment.
I just bought a board member’s rosewood 4 key Sweetheart flute. It’s several years old from what I recall, and it’s bore is as smooth as ice and it has been played daily.
Maybe some of the rough bore issues come from the type of rosewood used? In the C&F interview Ralph state he uses either Honduras Rosewood or Bolivian Rosewood.
Regardless, I’m with you Jim - my rosewood sweetheart is a remarkably good sounding flute. I really haven’t had it long enough to wax too poetically over it yet, but it’s as loud as the Seery, well in tune, and just a sweet playing flute that can get a good reedy tone. Simply, I like it.
Sincerely,
Eric - fellow Missouri eccentric
Copeland Woodwinds has just got back into making flutes, and they have a Rosewood keyless with brass fittings that looks pretty sharp on their website. I wouldn’t mind it in my house! They also make it in Blackwood, of course. They are listed at the same price of $1100 I believe.
There is a sound clip of the Blackwood on their website, but none for the Rosewood, unfotunately. The Blackwood sounds fine.
Hi Jim:
I have a Maurice Reviol in Honduran rosewood. It has a partial tuning slide. It’s a very nice flute. The tone is indeed very focused and clear - quite a contrast to blackwood, I think.
Deb
Duck and cover, folks. I sense a debate coming on.
Cheers,
Aaron
I’ll add that I prefer blackwood. I find the tone to be more interesting and better suited for trad tunes.
Deb
To Loren, if you are still around.
Sincere question. I know that
a smooth bore is good, but
what does it buy one?
More volume and power?
Improved clarity/focus of tone, and response, to be sure. To a certain degree, more volume as well.
I submit that without having an “identical” blackwood Sweetheart flute to compare your Rosewood flute to, you really can’t argue Rosewood sounds better. Certainly that particular flute may tickle your fancy, and nothing at all wrong with that, but comparing different designs/makes of flutes that are also of differing woods, gets us nowhere on the issue of how a particular wood sounds, for that you have to compare same model flutes from the same (consistent) makers, produced around the same time, if you want to be at least a tiny bit scientific about it anyway, although this debate will rage on endlessly regardless, I suppose.
Loren
Loren’s criteria for a superior flute sound may be diffrent to those of others. I don’t think its just a matter of it being in Jim’s head. If its a “head” matter, then its a matter of everybody’s head.
In the ears of some the precise clarity of blackwood is cold. I think that when the aesthetics of a tradition veers towards cold precision it becomes easy prey for a takeover by metal instruments as has happened with Boehm flute.
I am not a maker of flutes but a maker of music. I know this: if Jim makes music with his rosewood flute and loves it, it is in his heart.
Thanks Talisgia and Loren. Just to be clear.
I don’t think rosewood sounds better than
blackwood. Only that it has a sound of its
own which is, at least I think today,
quite nice.
Yes, the sort of scientific comparison
Loren mentions would be a good idea.
Slobber, pant, drool!
You’all may remember me going gaga
over maple.
Personally, I don’t remember. Maple is a very sweet wood. Sweetness is rarely precise and a soulful life is rarely black and white.
Actually, my comments have little to do with my personal criteria for a superior flute sound, I simply made a case for why Rosewood is not underated as a flute wood. Preferences in tone are another thing entirely, and I respect anyone’s choice in that regard, Jim included. Personally, I like the tone of different woods for different reasons, and don’t absolutely regard one or two as “best”. OTH, I submit that Jim likes his particular flute, and is comparing apples with oranges so to speak.
Loren
Well, the tradition of flute playing in Irish music has essentially always been that of using primarily Blackwood or Cocus instruments, so I don’t see where you’re going with that, I mean there has been little movement in trad towards Boehm flutes.
As far as blackwood sounding “Cold”, well, perhaps to some it does, but when compared with Cocus, Cocobolo, Ebony, and some other favored woods, Blackwood is positively warm and dark sounding, so it’s all a matter of perspective and taste. That is, if you believe the type of wood even makes a difference in tone, which many don’t.
We are also using the term Rosewood quite a generic way, which isn’t helpful either, since there are many types of “Rosewood” which can vary quite a bit from one another.
In the end, to each his/her own, I’ve got no problems with that. Oddly enough, some people seem to get a bit defensive when their favorite wood is not lavished with praise 
Loren
I disagree wholeheartedly, both with regards to wooden instruments, and life in general.
Loren
Loren - you mention the different types of rosewoods, and my question about that seems to have floated out of the thread somewhere along the way.
Reviol, Sweet and others appear to favor Honduras rosewood for instruments. It makes me wonder if it’s simply the best of the rosewoods for woodwinds. I also wonder how it compares grain wise and working wise with box and mopane.
I’m not trying to make a case for the superiority of one wood over another. Rosewood was used by german makers for flutes back in the 1800s, and there are quite a few of them around today (I formerly owned one). Cocus, blackwood and box have been around longer and there’s a bunch of them around from the 1800s, too.
Personally, I think blackwood is the dullest looking wood once it’s been a flute for a while - my Seery is indistinguishable from blackwood. Rosewood and mopane in comparison make for a beautiful instrument with their warm look and you can actually see it’s wood.
Overall, I completely agree with you Loren - it’s all about a particular instrument and how the player likes it.
Eric
Eric,
I have to stick with my own advice and not comment too much on how one (similar) Rosewood specifically compares with another regarding tone etc., because I haven’t had an opportunity to compare like instruments made from various rosewoods side by side, if you see what I mean.
Loren
I did have an Olwell rosewood D flute, with neither slide nor rings. It was a lovely flute. Very basic. Sweet sound, clearer than any Sweet flute I’ve played. Lacked the volume and clarity of blackwood, IMHO.
However, to be fair I should be comparing the rosewood sans slide with a blackwood sans slide. I do play a blackwood flute (sans slide) that Patrick made out of an old pool-cue. But this flute is his large hole model and the rosewood had medium holes. The blackwood flute is clearer, has more volume, and is more responsive.
Now, I also play a boxwood flute with medium holes. This flute can pretty well hold its own (volume) against any large-hole flute and has that creamy boxwood sound to boot. But the BW flute has a slide. Which leaves us exactly nowhere in this discussion.
I think it important to remember that when it comes to the music it is much more about the player and the tune than it is about the flute. Where the flute itself matters is when you’re in a large session or playing with other loud instruments (box or pipes perhaps). Then a flute that produces good volume and projects well is handy indeed.
A smooth bore has the advantage of not holding droplets of water in the flute. A rough bore offers more opportunity for condensation to be held in the flute, in the small ridges and bumps of the bore, rather than to slip out and drip on the fiddler’s leg.
I have noticed that flutes with mirror-like bores often sound very clear. I don’t know whether this is because the polished bore itself contributes to the sound or because makers who polish the bore go to the added effort in all areas of the flute’s manufacture.