What kind of microphone suits a flute well?

Irish Flute
1

Hi all,

I’ve recently started performing more and more in an amplified setting, and one unexpected challenge that I’ve recently encountered is standing still enough to play into a microphone. I’m a very animated person both musically and personally, and I’ve seen my little brother use some sort of clip-on microphone for his sax that allows him to ham it up a little on stage. Is there a commonly used flute analog to this? How do people best mic their flutes for performances?

Thanks for your thoughts,
Cameron

2

Hi Cameron -

Mostly I play into a Shure SM81 condenser mic on a stand. I always bring my own stand because you can’t rely on venues to have anything decent. This works better for me as I’m occasionally switching to F flute or sometimes others, plus various whistles. Also, it is easiest and cleanest when you have to get up and do something, as when running sound yourself - no trailing wires.

The sound folks seem to like this mic - nice clean sound with good transients and little EQ needed. Never had feedback issues even when I really should have.

But for times when I do need to move around more, I’ve used an Audio Technica 851b mini condenser.
It can operate off an AA battery or phantom power.
After experimenting a great deal, here’s the best setup I’ve come up with:

It’s all done with O-rings of various sizes.
A large O-ring passes around the mic and is snugged to it with a smaller one, nestling between the flute head and the mic. Tension adjustment is done via two very tiny O-rings on the bottom. The two other rings around the mic stabilize it against the flute head so the wind screen needn’t touch, and the thin cable loops around and tucks under the large O-ring for a strain-free setup.

It stays in place well and the small contact area between O-rings on the mic and the head provide adequate isolation from handling noise (finger pops etc).

The whole mic rig fits nicely in its case, and I use a cork to substitute for the flute head when stored.
The battery housing/cable connector clips to a belt, and I added a loop to slip over the top for extra security.
A cable “Turtle” takes care of the excess.

Here you can also see a heavy-duty mic cable I bring, with an adjustable cord loop which slips snugly over the belt housing.
This is akin to looping your guitar cable through your strap. To keep strain off the connector.
Because you will step on the cable.
The little plastic clip is to secure the thin cable to clothing, so its not dangling in the way.

I might have used other mics, but this was one I already had.

Best of luck!

3

AKG 130 PERCEPTION.
A value choiche.

4

I have and use the Microvox mic

http://www.microvox.demon.co.uk/flutepage.htm

I am not a professional though, but for my purposes it is good. I originally stumbled across the mic through Ian Anderson’s flute tech page on his Jethro Tull website.

The separate power supply comes in a simple version or a more complex one (which I have) which allows two signals to be mixed and their relative volume to be changed. For example you might have a stand mic and the flute mounted one and you could suppress one of them if you needed to.

I would send some piccies but a friend of mine has it out on loan at the moment… (He’s playing flute in a rock band…)

(P.S. I see from the website that a certain Terry McGee has also posted a review of the system there…)

5

(woodfluter’s little clip to secure the thin cable to clothing looks like a good idea and something I will probably be adding to my setup…)

6

I’ve had success with a basic lavalier mic (from Radio Shack)–clean sound, not very expensive.

7

I’ve used two solutions which seem applicable to your query, Cameron. You describe a common issue many of us have tried to deal with over the years. I do agree that the best solution is to provide your own mic and stand. In any case you want to be in control of how the flute is mic’d

The first method I have used is similar to that shown by woodfluter. The physical mount is the different in my setup. The mic is positioned as woodfluter shows in their photos. The mic body is wrapped in a piece of closed cell foam. The foam and mic are held in place by a velcro strap wrapped firmly around the head of the flute. The foam limits handling noise and protects both the flute and mic. The velcro is perhaps not as secure as the arrangement already shown but it works well enough for me. The advantaage I see to this setup is that it picks up all of the flute sound and nothing else and you can walk around. The disadvantage is that it does not allow you to work the mic position - the distance and position is fixed. That can limit your dynamics on stage a bit. And it is largely a one instrument solution. It has to be moved from one instrument to another if say you play low whistles as well. Granted the velcro mount can be moved rather quickly.

Which mic make/model you use for this setup is up to you. Many directional lavaliers will work fine. The Audio Technica ATM35 is a popular mic used for horns. It may be what your little brother uses on his sax. The mic can be separated from the little goose-neck to be strapped on a flute (you can also buy it without the goose-neck). Or you might just be able clip the goosneck on to a velcro strap on the flute head if you are imaginative. Also, take a look at the Great Australian Bight on Terry McGee’s site as well. Terry has some other good suggestions for miking a flute on his site.

The second solution I can suggest is to employ a headset mic. All the major mic makers offer a couple of these. I use an Audio Technica ATM75. I have used others as well, including wireless models. The advantage of these is that you can control the position of the mic a bit better to control noise. The disadvantage is that you cannot get away from the mic. It is part of you as you move around and speak on stage. And the headset can be unsightly (depends on your personal aesthetic).

Have fun.

Feadoggie

8

I got an AKG P-4 (basically a road-grade AKG Perception - http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/akg-perception-p4-dynamic-instrument-mic) for my pipes but b/c life is what it is, I generally wind up using it for my flute and tinwhistle as well. I’ve been very impressed! Especially for the money. I think overall I’m developing a preference for large-diaphragm condenser mics.

(EDIT - ref to Kevin Crawford’s mic preferences deleted based on updated info below)

As for the “strap-ons” … I like being able to go off-mic if things blow up, and since I also play tinwhistle and pipes in a gig, a mic on a stand seems to be a more flexible solution for me.

9

These are all excellent ideas. Thanks very much for your input, and for the great photos. I’ve got some ideas to work with now!

10

I use Audix ADX-10 lavalier mics with selfmade flute clamps that recycle the tie holder that comes with the mic. Have a few of them, attached to various flutes, and I used to carry a submixer with me to EQ the sound and send one single flute signal to the FOH man. These days I’m just sending all the single signals to the desk and let the engineer do his work…easier for me, less cluttering on stage, and often better for them, too, as they have full control. When using mics that are strapped to the flute, it’s important to have the engineer apply a low cut filter and/or EQ the lower frequencies out (below, say, 200Hz depending on flute pitch) to make sure no low frequency fingering noise gets into the PA. That drives subwoofers crazy! I built a few little “mute boxes” that go between mic and mixer to mute each flute separately (and to make sure the engineer doesn’t mute a flute and forgets to turn it back on…).

When using stationary mics, I accept the plain old SM58 as it works perfectly for flute. SM81 is nice, too. My own favourite is the Sennheiser MD441, but many engineers don’t like and/or can’t handle its low output. Requires good preamps in the mixing desk. However, sound-wise, for me it’s the best mic for a deep and dark flute sound, as it doesn’t overrepresent the high hissssing frequences as many, especially cheap condensers do. The EV RE-16 is cool for flute, too, but it sounds a wee bit duller than the MD441 to my ears.

11

Chris Cracknell wrote:
“I have and use the Microvox mic.”

I’ve heard good things about it, and have heard it used by a couple of wooden flute players at dances over the years. This is an omnidirectional mic, and the mounting system supplied apparently works well enough to eliminate most handling noise. Mine is cardioid, and hence more sensitive to handling noise. I made it work eventually, as shown. But then, I’m very fussy about stray noises.

TinTin wrote:
“I’ve had success with a basic lavalier mic (from Radio Shack)–clean sound, not very expensive.”

I tried that years ago. Even with the omni, I couldn’t find a way to supress handling noise and tonehole pops. I didn’t use the mount I showed above, but tried all manner of foam wrapping and even a tiny round frame to suspend the mic by threads. Never got it to my satisfaction, but you may have had more luck.

Feadoggie said:
“The first method I have used is similar to that shown by woodfluter. The physical mount is the different in my setup. <…> The mic body is wrapped in a piece of closed cell foam. The foam and mic are held in place by a velcro strap wrapped firmly around the head of the flute. The foam limits handling noise and protects both the flute and mic.”

I never could get enough sound isolation that way. Open cell foam worked best, but only if there was very, very little pressure on it; when the velcro strap was tight enough to hold it in place, it transmitted too much handling noise. I finally concluded the best solution was to minimize contact area, even if the material was much denser than foam. Then the only problem was to obtain stability while doing that.

Gabriel wrote:
“When using stationary mics, I accept the plain old SM58 as it works perfectly for flute. SM81 is nice, too.”

SM58 also a good choice in dynamic. My main complaint about this and many dynamic mics is the proximity effect, which is nice for voice and even guitar but not what I want with flute. I’d like to have some freedom in distance to the mic without changing the tone. But it’s really quite decent. A cheap condenser, as you noted, can pick up hissing, while a better one will give a good representation, if used right.

…and also:
“When using mics that are strapped to the flute, it’s important to have the engineer apply a low cut filter and/or EQ the lower frequencies out (below, say, 200Hz depending on flute pitch) to make sure no low frequency fingering noise gets into the PA.”

Have to be careful with this I think.

I’ve had sound guys cut out all the low frequencies on the flute, figuring that nothing I’m playing has a fundamental below 200Hz. Sounds reasonable, but if I can hear the hall, I know it right away. And get them to fix it. The problem is that a low EQ which is shelving at 80Hz is actually going to affect higher frequencies - if pulled all the way down (on most boards), it will have some impact all the way to 1kHz at least. IMO, you shouldn’t need to cut the lows for flute at all. If you think you do, probably there’s a different problem or a better solution. Of course, I’m talking about three band with or without midrange sweep. If you have more control over the flute channel, like parametric, there’s more you can do.

I’ve played around with my own gear and various mic mounting schemes, and could only get a slight reduction in handling noise when completely cutting the low EQ. Playing with the board’s graphic EQ, I found that much of the handling noise I’d been fighting was midrange. Surprisingly.

A couple of additional points:

Breath noise can be an issue, with any mic. Not always bad, but often don’t want it.
On stand-mounted, I aim the mic at my nose.
Nose breath is downward, away from the screen. Most embouchure air is aimed lower too.
With a good condenser mic, I’ve found I can work slightly farther from the mic (most of the time) without feedback.
That helps with wind noise.

I’ve mostly used a foam windscreen. Lately I’ve been trying it without.
It feels like I can get a very slightly more defined sound without, but it is more demanding as to accurate addressing of the mic if breath noise is to be kept low.

For the flute-mounted mic, I felt that the foam windscreen was needed.
I couldn’t quite eliminate enough breath noise otherwise, even with all kinds of positioning.

I have a musician friend who uses lavalier mic mounted on her Boehm.
She positions it on the back side of the headjoint to escape breath noise.
I tried that and couldn’t make it work well.
The signal was just too weak, adding to handling and breath issues actually.
The position shown in the photo is close enough to blowhole that you get a good, strong signal that overpowers breath noise.
Also, feedback potential is lower - due to needing so very little signal boost.

12

I’m talking at least four-band semi-parametric EQs of course, anything less isn’t really appropiate live gear IMHO…most venues we’re playing these days have digital consoles anyway, and getting a low cut, that only cuts the very low end, tailored onto my flute signal really isn’t a problem there. I noticed the problem you mentioned on rather basic boards in the past, the low EQ bands really tend to go up quite high on those. On digital consoles, where you have a Q in every band, a steep cut at 200Hz is often possible, however on a classic analog console with fixed Q, the cut has to be positioned lower to make sure the sound doesn’t loose its fundamentals.

Regarding distance to stationary mics - you’re right, you’re a bit limited on that with a SM58. The MD441 behaves more like a condenser and I really liked that one…but in the last festival season I played a few gigs with changeover times too short to get all my gear set up, and I was surprised how well the SM58 worked. Even thought about selling all my gear and get a nice stationary mic again for a second.

13

FYI, the 2012 tour rider for Lúnasa specifies a Neumann KMS 105 (hypercardioid condenser mic) for Kevin’s flute, and I think that’s what he was using when I saw them on tour last year in Seattle. It has a distinctive basket around the grill that makes it easy to identify. Nice mic, if a bit pricey!

14

Ah, good, he finally came into the hypercardioid fold. :smiley: Thanks for the update! I’ll edit my post so as not to confuse anyone who doesn’t read all the way down this thread.

15

The proximity effect is actually a function of the pattern – all directional microphones have proximity effect, whether dynamic or not. I would think the sm57 would be better than the 58.

I’ve had sound guys cut out all the low frequencies on the flute, figuring that nothing I’m playing has a fundamental below 200Hz. Sounds reasonable, but if I can hear the hall, I know it right away. And get them to fix it. The problem is that a low EQ which is shelving at 80Hz is actually going to affect higher frequencies - if pulled all the way down (on most boards), it will have some impact all the way to 1kHz at least. IMO, you shouldn’t need to cut the lows for flute at all. If you think you do, probably there’s a different problem or a better solution. Of course, I’m talking about three band with or without midrange sweep. If you have more control over the flute channel, like parametric, there’s more you can do.

They do it to eliminate LF handling noise. On most mics, most handling noise will be very low frequency thumps. In an outdoor venue it will reduce wind noise too.

I just bought a $400 parametric EQ so I can sharply cut below 190 hz on my wife’s fiddle. That’s not the only reason we got it, but it was a large part.

I enable the 80 Hz cut button on every channel on the board except the bass – it’s usually a sharp cut starting at 80.

Have any of you used the Countryman Isomax mics? They work great on fiddle. They have a variety of patterns. Very small.

16

per Gabriel:
“I’m talking at least four-band semi-parametric EQs of course, anything less isn’t really appropiate live gear IMHO…most venues we’re playing these days have digital consoles anyway…”

Lucky dude! Our local dance has a digital board (about the past 6 months), and there’s one other place we play regularly that does (or they use it sometimes, actually.) Many (no, most) don’t even have four-band. We’ve talked about bringing one of my boards, but it seems to confuse the issue for many of the sound folks we encounter. Your mileage varies, thankfully.

There’s workarounds. You can sometimes apply a low cut button switch, and then boost the low EQ, which can give oomph to the lower notes while eliminating the very low frequencies. But (a) from my experimenting, most of the handling noise wasn’t low frequency anyway, and (b) whenever they’ve cut the lows on me, it was with standmount mic. Pointless.

per Conical Bore:
“Lúnasa specifies a Neumann KMS 105 (hypercardioid condenser mic) for Kevin’s flute,..”

Uh, yeah. Running around 700 bucks. Nice I’m sure, but that’s not in my budget!

Says Highland-Piper:
“The proximity effect is actually a function of the pattern – all directional microphones have proximity effect, whether dynamic or not. I would think the sm57 would be better than the 58.”

You are quite correct sir! About all directional mics. But it’s a matter of degree. They differ. SM58 has a good deal of it.
The two standmount condensers I’ve been using for years are considerably less so.
I’ve used both the 58s and 57s with flute - those are what I started with, as I have several of both.
I never could be sure there was a significant difference apart from the windscreen.

Highland-Piper on low-frequency cuts:
“They do it to eliminate LF handling noise. On most mics, most handling noise will be very low frequency thumps. In an outdoor venue it will reduce wind noise too.”

Yeah, but like I said, it was always done on standmount. Sort of done by rote.
Now in some settings, could be floor vibration up through the stand - I’ve cut lows a bit in those situations for some bands.
As noted, for mic mounted on flute, the handling noise I’d been fighting was not low F.
It was smack in the middle of the range of tones I’d want to keep!

When running sound, one rule of thumb I try to adhere to is, use subtle EQ for enhancement and to separate instruments playing together that have similar tonal ranges; but if there’s feedback problems or stray noises or whatever, use EQ only as a final last resort. There is almost always a far better fix.

17

One other thing…

Someone mentioned headset mics.
I have and used to use regularly, for a year or two, an AKG C420.
It’s an option to consider.
I still use it occasionally, like outdoor gigs.

It has some of the instrument-switching benefits of standmount.
There’s no handling noises to deal with (apart from banging it into things - which I did).
Nonetheless, I became sort of disillusioned over time.

Just like with flute-mounted mics, you have to secure the mic cable and the connector box to your person somehow, and use a small clip to clothing, to keep the thin wire from catching on things. But you also have to get it rigged over your head and ears each time.

I used a silent in-line switch to turn it off when between sets and for discussion. But it just ended up feeling too fussy. Standmount seemed so much easier - you set the instrument down and you can walk away, maybe into the hall to see how the rest of the band sounds out there. Walk back and pick up the flute and you’re off and running.

And yes, it looks weird. People will ask you when the workout starts. Plus the positioning issue - it is farther from the embouchure hole than a flute-mounted mic, so needs more boost. And unlike a standmount, it doesn’t stay in one place all the time. So sometimes there were feedback problems, when turning to a bandmate or leaning forward toward a monitor to grab something.

Adding all this together, it retreated to become my third option. Mostly for no-monitor situations.

18

:laughing: