Going to buy a mic to record whistle, guitar and mandolin.
About 100 euros is what I’m thinking of paying, max.
From what I understand, there’s a significant difference between “large membrane” and “small membrane” mics, the former having their own sound while the latter are entirely “natural”.
When it comes to small membrane mics, I already know a good one, so I’m asking here if there is any large membraner that I should consider buying instead?
Here are a few threads about whistle microphones:
https://forums.chiffandfipple.com/t/suggestions-for-a-good-affordable-microphone/59829/1
https://forums.chiffandfipple.com/t/what-kind-of-microphone/48913/1
The Shure SM57 or SM58 (dynamic mikes, basically identical) is a commonly used whistle mike for both recording and live performance. It works well as an all-purpose mike, and the price is exactly in your range.
From what I understand, there’s a significant difference between “large membrane” and “small membrane” mics, the former having their own sound while the latter are entirely “natural”.
I would think the opposite is true, though I’m no expert.
I’ve used small condenser mikes like the AKG C1000S (around 150 Euros), which is particularly nice for guitar and mando but maybe more “crisp” than needed for high whistles. My only experience with large condensers is in the studio. But I doubt you’d find a good large diaphragm condenser like the AKG 414 - a studio standard - for much less than 600 Euros.
Thanks.
From what I gather from those threads though, the SM57/58 seems most fit for amplification and wind instruments?
I would love a mic that works with both guitar and whistle equally good.
I read something about a SM57 with external padding that can be removed depending on the nature of the instrument… maybe that’s something for me.
Rhadge,
If you would like an example, the clips located here (playing skill aside) were done with the SM58 and a Tube MP Project Series preamp. It made for a very crisp recording with very little noise. It was also very easy to keep the high end from peaking without losing the low end.
That’s a good idea, straycat. All the clips in my signature links were recorded with an SM57 and Behringer Xenyx 802 board (preamp).
The SM58 is a vocal mike with a built-in pop filter, but it works fine with instruments, too. The SM57 lacks the filter, which is the only real difference between the two (apart from the shape). If you like, you can get an external foam wind screen for the SM57, and use it only when you need it. I usually leave it attached, but it’s not necessary for a properly miked whistle, or for string instruments.
http://store.shure.com/store/shure/en_US/DisplayProductDetailsPage/productID.105905200
I see, then I guess the SM57 without filter is all I need, since I’m going to record indoors, without background noise or any wind blowing.
I guess it’s partly from your excellent playing, but still the sound in those clips is very good. Goes to you too, straycat.
Now, as long as it works with guitar, mando and bodhran too (when I get one late next year), I will buy one.
The only side-effect I can see with it is that it doesn’t pick-up as many high and low frequencies compared to condenser mics.
Don’t know if that makes a very noticeable difference though? It would be nice if it could pick-up the bass from bodhran or guitar.
Hey MT…
What whistle did you use for Gallagher’s Frolics and Flowers of Edinburgh on the GG Clips link?
GG = Guido Gonzato. 
Duh. 
Didn’t put the two together. Nice sounding whistle and great playing as always.
i’ve always found the SM58 to work best for me on whistle. in the studio and playing live. The 58 has a wider sound cone( \ / ) which you can use for dynamics. I’ve always found the the 57s are very direct( l l ) in the sound they pick up. If you move a little to the side of the mic the sound drops off completely whereas the 58 has a wider range and thus gives you more flexibility in playing dynamics and being able to back off the microphone and sort of self-compress on the really shrill notes.
I only really can make comment as regards the whistle though. I know nothing of how the 58 interacts with guitars and mandos.
I wouldn’t recommend SM57/58’s for acoustic string instruments. It kinda works if you have a decent preamp, but the result isn’t stellar. Of course, micing acoustic instruments is an entire field of science and I can’t say I’m particularly good at it. It might be possible to get good results with dynamic mics (and it also depends on what kind of sound you’re looking for) but to save you a lot of headaches I would recommend getting a cheap condenser mic. In fact, I have just ordered a Behringer C1 (~€50 or so) for that exact purpose.
Thanks. That was kind of what I wanted to know, in addition to the whistle aspect.
But will a condenser mic be okay for whistle then?
Or should I just have one mic for whistle, and another for acoustic string instruments?
Actually, I don’t know (yet). Dynamic mics work fine for whistles, but I’ve never tried recording a whistle with a condenser. I can’t see why it wouldn’t work though, as long as you mind your levels. A condenser can usually pick up a yawning gnat at five hundred paces so it’s probably wise to back down the input level a bit 
But if you look at the published cardioid patterns from the Shure technical specifications, you see a different story:
Shure SM57:
Shure SM58:
The cardioid patterns are … identical. For example, at 1 kHz - around 1st octave B on a high D whistle - the -5dB cutoff is ~80 degrees off-axis for both microphones. The 58 may seem subjectively like it has a wider spread because of the round ball, but it’s just an illusion.
The bottom line is that either microphone is a good all-purpose mike for whistle, strings, or vocals. Apart from the pop filter, the choice of shape is just a question of personal preference.
That’s right. Remove the ball from a 58 and you get a 57, pretty much.
So what do I buy? 
MTGuru claims SM57 is good for acoustic string instruments, while West says that maybe it will be too much hassle with that mic.
Since my recording skills go so far as to be able to press [rec] and [stop], I don’t know what to think.
Optimally, buy a 57/58 and a condenser
As mentioned I don’t like dynamic mics for acoustic string instruments like guitar (hm, I assumed that by “strings” MTGuru meant, well, bowed instruments). But my experience with recording acoustic instruments is also limited and you shouldn’t take my opinions as hard facts. I just think it’s hard to do a good noise-free recording of, for example, a fingerpicked steelstring acoustic guitar with a dynamic mic.
Okay, I read through this thread from the beginning again, and MTGuru does indeed say that SM57/58’s work fine for string instruments. Unless that means fiddles, I’m assuming it all depends on what you’re plugging the dynamic mic into. I use an Alto AMX-80 mini mixer (which is certainly not the best piece of studio hardware money can buy) and I am more or less unable to do a good recording of fingerpicked guitar with a dynamic mic. To get a useable level (without having the mic almost touching the fretboard) I need to turn the gain way up which results in hiss. I also think a dynamic mic doesn’t really capture the nuances of the instrument, I get sort of a dead, flat sound. But then again, this might also be related to cheap hardware, i.e. my mixer. Or mic placement.
So I dunno. What kind of gear will you be using with the mic, Rhadge?
Rhadge, IMO you are over-thinking this. The only way to know if you like a particular microphone is to try it. You have some good advice here. So try something.
Unless you are recording in a professional studio, any good basic microphone - dynamic or condenser - will work fine for home recording of any of those instruments. The other elements of your recording chain - preamp, cables, sound card A/D conversion, sample rate, effects - will probably be the weak links with more effect on the overall quality.
As West says, condenser microphones are usually more sensitive. They also have a faster response to sound transients, which makes them a better choice for recording the desirable percussive characteristics of plucked strings (guitar, mandolin, etc.).
But when I record a high whistle with the SM57, I usally roll off the high frequency response to -3 dB, to prevent it from sounding too shrill. With compression and EQ, you negate some of the advantages of a condenser anyway.
West, while I tend to prefer a good dynamic mike over a cheap condenser, it will be interesting to get your report on that Behringer C1 after you have a chance to play with it.
Quick example. This is the kind of sound quality and level I get from an SM58, pop screen off, mic pointed at roughly the 12th fret, about 2 inches from the guitar. That amount of noise is unacceptable for me at least. And just for the record, I’m not blaming the mic here – I’m just trying to show that the quality you get might be very much dependant on what equipment you’re plugging the mic into.
(And yeah, the guitar is out of tune – I put new strings on just a couple of hours ago )