Soooooooo ya know we have had some realy good back porch or kitchen table debates in this place, in my opinion anyway, and have been able to enjoy each others differences and been able to learn from each other and when the storm clouds cleared we have been able to hug, take a swig, and play a jig together. We have done this without stuping to name calling, degrading, or showing disrespect for each other. They were interesting as hell to boot. So what happened in Chriss pole? Where did the name callers come from. They wouldnt be sitting at my kitchen table.
Now dont get me wrong Im all for passion and you all know where I stand, and I am passionate about my opinions, but I respect my friends. I was sorry to see some of the posts I saw in that thread. Damn nere put me off my whistle.
I don’t know what to say. I think Chris might be regretting the whole thing, but it’s taken on a life of its own (politics? NAW). Too touchy for me; I’ve had enuf of fruitless disagreements at the family table. Me, I’m here for the music, and I prefer my politics elswhere. :roll:
I looked into it when Chris first started it - and in view of my agreeement to drop the political stuff, I then walked away. Based on your message I just took a look at where it’s gone.
What gets to me is how many of those that seem to be fanning the flames were among the ones who said they’d cool it just a week or so ago. I hate to think that we can’t discuss things like adults, but I’m beginning to seriously wonder.
No, Tom, YOU have argued well, not stooping to name calling and showing disrespect. Too many others don’t have the class to follow your example. You and I are about as politically opposite as two people can be, but I admire you for two reasons. #1: None of this is theoretical to you. You have “been there and done that,” unlike so many of the loudest and most insulting folks here, who are “armchair experts” in international politics. #2: You have always addressed the issue, not attacked others personally if you didn’t happen to have an immediate response to their arguments. If all the folks argued as intelligently as yourself, maybe they’d win some converts. As it is, there are four C&Fers whose posts I no longer read, regardless of whether they’re talking politics, whistles, or music. They have proved beyond any doubt that their words carry no weight, so I just don’t waste my time that way any more. My hat is off to you, my friend, regardless of how intensely we each feel for the opposite political sides.
It happened, I think, because the thread was framed in a provocative
way, the event in question was probably misreported,
there was no clear connection to the American Government (which
is what the thread was supposed to about),
and, in this murky and confusing context, important
issues got raised which we consequently couldn’t engage clearly
and straightforwardly. People talking past each other,
several different issues afloat simultaneously, frustration,
confusion, etc.. Best
I also admire the passion and the depth of knowledge of many of the folks I disagree with here. I learn more here than from the Sunday morning pundits!
I’m staying out of the political threads as much as I can, though the itch is there, and I do allow myself the occasional snipe.
When I started learning pipes in 1972, the situation in Northern Ireland was very tense, the premises which we used were actually rented from “An Phoblacht”, the newspaper of part of the republican movement, but there was an unspoken consensus that we never talked politics.
Most members of Na Píobairí Uilleann in those days probably subscribed broadly to the shared nationalist discourse of the 26-county republic, but there were also some members of other persuasions, and I would hate them to have felt excluded by a consensus that they didn’t subscribe to.
I am alarmed by some of the things which I read coming out of the US at the moment, but discussing them through a medium like C&F leads easily to misunderstandings and assumptions of bias or prejudice, so I think it would be a pity to poison the atmosphere with them. To give you an idea of what I’m talking about, only yesterday in the Irish Times a writer commented on the fact that it’s ridiculous that so many people feel that they have to preface any opinion with the disclaimer “I’m not anti-American, but”. That’s a measure of how sensitive a lot of Americans are at the moment.
I’m not arguing for censorship, just self-restraint (and doesn’t that just demonstrate how attuned I am to Americans’ infatuation with their first amendment?) .
Yes, it’s a common problem, but avoidable here.
If one feels the need to start a thread, select
some clear issue and frame it fairly and
straightforwardly in a way that doesn’t
telegraph disrespect for one side or another.
("Are peaceniks brain damaged or
strung out on morphine?’ isn’t so helpful.)
Definitely worth the trouble, especially
considering the alternative. Not hard
to do. Best
P. S. Roger, I think we have a history of
having good political discussions here.
This one was doomed from the first,
please don’t take it as typical.
Anybody who wants to see us do
much better, check OT:Rolling Protest
two weeks ago.
I hope you’ll read my posts in Chris’ thread. Unlike the Rolling Protest thread, I didn’t manage to stay out of that one (of course I joined it before it had the offensive poll attached to it).
The ever-observant Weekender truly failed in that self-description until just now. So I went to Gaeliccrossings from posted link, saw a similar Message Board layout, many of the same posters, many of the same discussions and went…“hmmmmm.”
Corollary, successor, competitor, imitator, tribute to diversity? What is it? Does this mean we really ARE supposed to confine these pages to whistle?
That’s my version of “What Happened?” I thought it was a store.
I love the point that Roger brought up in his post. It was through our political debates of the past few weeks that the international membership of this forum realy hit me. I was forced to realise, simply from those posts of people from around the world, that what I say here, indeed, what any of us say here will be heard and understood in the context of the experience and national concience of the international members of this forum. To me that is both humbling and excieting. It also demands that we realise the responsability that this oppertunity permits us. We can infact sample the feelings of a very deverse population of a planet that is by no means easy to understand. I am totaly knocked out by the wealth of knowledge and passion that can be expressed here, and the privalage to partake in such discussions. I am humbled by the respect shown to me and others in these discussions. I consider it an emence pleasure to have been able to meet such a deverse group of human beings and to feel confortable enough to say whats on my mind in the company of friends.
I would hate to think this oppertunity could end. For every individual there is a truth. To offen that truth is internalized because of the lack of a way to share it, to step back and look at it from another perspective, and to hold it up against all those other truths posssesed by those other inhabitans of this very complex world. The subjects we have discussed affect us all in some way, and, are part of our daily lives. Just as our whistle playing and love of traditional music has brought us to this place,
it has also afforded us this oppertunity to communicat our truths to each other. That is the magic of this place.
.