I note that a lot of conversation is presently taking place over on Gaelic Crossings regarding the political and other OT posts here - and the general tenor of nastiness that often seems to ensue from same. I wrote a post there which I quote herewith verbatim, giving my stand on it…
--------------- quote from Gaelic Crossings -----------------------------
The political crap on C&F is only as prevalent as Dale and Rich allow it to be. I’ve seen locked threads lately, however, that should’ve been locked long ago. But that said, I also know that neither Dale nor Rich want to be, nor should need to be, Thought Police. They should just set up an “Off Topic” place, and let the shit fly there instead of splattering all over the whistle board. In fact, I’m going to copy this post over there, too. If the PSWB (or any other specifically-oriented board) gets OT posts, then, it would be no problem at all to lock them without notice. Just put it in the board rules.
My 2p
serpent
I think the threads have gone pretty well, and served
a good purpose. That the discussion was
international was, for me, quite interesting.
A real community, which is what
this is, going through events of this magnitude,
will discuss them. That’s the price of community,
I believe. Now that the die is cast, there is only
one such thread active and it appears to be
dwindling on its own. People who don’t like such
discussions needn’t read them. As the philosopher
said, crap is in the eye of the beholder.
Personally I would prefer not to separate
OT posts, again because I think of them
as the price of community. For instance,
when Dale and others have used OT posts
to reach out for emotional support and prayers
because someone they love has died, it’s
better to have access to the board at large–better
for us all. There’s no way to separate OT
posts that matter from those that don’t.
We’ve just gone through something
extraordinary rather well, I think.
Structural changes based on how
things go during an agonizing international
megacrisis are
unlikely to be an improvement.
It’s working; let’s not fix it. My two cents. Best
I also like things the way they are. Jim’s post pretty much sums up how I feel. As a rule, I learn a lot about a lot of things by reading this board. It’s not just a whistle discussion forum. Like Jim says, it is a community. I personally think it’s cool that I finally found a big group of folks with the same interests as me. I like hearing what everyone has to say and It’s easy to find if it’s all in the same place.
The thing is that the OT converstation are generally ALWAYS marked as such, and the topic is clear. We can ALL exercise our choice. If we dont wish to read OT subjects, OR certain subjects…we don’t have to open them. Ultimatly we can always just NOT read them if we dont like them, just as we can change the TV channel or turn the off. I find it always interesting to get others perspectives on things…and especially an international persepective. And have read the recent OTs about the current unpleasantness with great interest.
What I’ve read of the currently running thread has mostly held back from any nasty name calling. One musical instrument board which I’ve participated in had a general discussion area; it got so nasty around the 9-11 mess that the area had to get closed down.
Given the intensity of emotions of folks at a time like this and the scope of political leanings of those participating, what I’ve seen recently has been quite civilized. Of course, before this last week, I’ve not been reading the board, but it seems there have been more vitriolic interchanges over whistle related subjects in the past.
I think that having ‘OT’ in the subjet line allows me to skip them as needed, which is usually. It also helps if the subject line is fairly accurate as to what it’s about. I don’t see a need for an OT board. And I don’t see a need to regulate the place any more than it is. We are not one-dimensional beings and as musicians (read, ‘artists’) we are probably passionate, which extends beyond music into social and political issues. This place is plenty whistly IMO. There is room for a diverse universe of discussion here.
I just took a close look at the top page of this forum. On my screen, I am able to see 17 topic titles. Of those, only 5 are directly whistle related! Of the other topics, 2 are about tunes and 1 is about Lusana. The rest have little or nothing to do with whistles or music in general. If we move the OT stuff elsewhere, the place would be a lot less cluttered. The problem is that there would not be much left.
Rather than move the OT stuff somewhere else, I would propose another alternative. One of the things that I have noticed on this and other boards is that when people are able to post anonymously, things have a way of degenerating and turning pissy very quickly especially when the topic at hand is one on which people have strong feelings.
Being able to hide behind cute handles and avatars seems to embolden people and they wind up saying things they would otherwise not say if they had to attach their REAL name to their posts. On boards where this is the policy, people tend to remain much more civil even on the more controversial topics.
I began following this board about 3 months ago. I joined not too long after that. Shortly after I joined, a flame war began that got so bad that it caused one very valuable member of this board to leave for good. Since then, I don’t think there has been any point in time when the list of the top 25 or 30 topics hasn’t contained at least one thread containing one flame war or another.
One of the greatest things about this board is the tremendous diversity of people who visit and contribute. We have people from all over the world. Teenagers to seniors. Novices to professional players and professional builders. Different cultures and belief systems.
The vast majority of these people have attained the level of maturity that allows them to carry on discussions in a civil manner. Then there are the others… Perhaps, if they could no longer post anonymously, they might pause and ask themselves “Is this really what I want to say and is this how it should be said? How will this be perceived by someone who does not share my culture and background?”
First, for Mike’s benefit, my name is Bill Whedon, and I often do sign it that way. As to the rest of it, well..
The name of the board is “Poststructural Whistle Board”, and I defy anyone to tell me what the heck political commentary not involving “whistle blowers”, or our activities in Iraq might have to do with that.
There are a zillion boards where discussion of politics, wars, atrocities, and your opinions on same, are de rigeur. Yes, it’s a “community”, but to me, it means, as stated in the board title, within the context of playing whistles. Anything else is clutter, plain and simple. And as to having a paucity of posts if we don’t talk OT, so what? I don’t want to wade through a million posts on politics and the war, to get at a tidbit of information on frickin’ whistles. Whistles are why I joined this group - not to “have the right to ignore” off-topic non-whistle blather. You, I will remind you, also “have the right” to take it someplace where it’s ON topic and doesn’t interfere with the stated purpose of the board.
Bill Whedon
serpent
Anything not whistle related is clutter, plain and simple?
Here is an OT post that began a thread. I don’t think
it’s clutter at all, but it isn’t in any way related
to whistles.
‘I mourn the passing of the brave folk who piloted
and crewed the shuttle. I weep for their families.
Yet they were brave beyond the ken of most of us.
May their momories live in glory forever. Bill Whedon.’
My name is Aaron Rattray, Anyone can look up my profile and E-mail me, or AIM me.
The reasons discussing these OT posts is interesting here are these:
As diverse as the people on this board are, we all have a peaceful place in our souls that just appreciates family, friends, and the sound of a well played tin whistle.
Having that to link us keeps things (relatively) civil.
Where else could I get spanked by Zubivka in an arguement?
I just can’t get enough of that glamour shots avatar of Serpent!
I like your posts, Aaron, and you know I sympathize
with your views. Let me encourage you to be
just plain civil, as best you can manage. Civility
is the life-line that makes these discussions possible.
The internet magnifies things; a little mostly
joking incivility goes a long way. Best, Jim
There are good reasons for allowing ‘board pseudonyms’; it adds a lot to the fun and allows people to adopt a persona that might not wholly reflect their real personality. This isn’t usually a bad thing.
Like many others with cute names, I sign certain posts that seem to call for it with my real name and always answer PMs that way. Well, I wouldn’t if I ever got one that was threatening or abusive but that hasn’t happened yet. OK OK, don’t rush me.
There are good reasons for people not to want to reveal their email addresses and I choose not to. But if, through PMs, it gets to be more convenient to use email, I gladly pass on my address.
Since ‘poststructural’ doesn’t have a real definition, I’ll make one up.
A Poststructural Whistle Board, coming about in the Poststructural Era, is one that encompasses all topics and ideas, unlike the highly structured and closely monitored whistle boards of the now passe ‘Structural Era,’ which was abandoned after the Clinton Administration. Don’t be fooled by the word ‘whistle’ as the operative word is Board. The Bush administration has worked hard behind the scenes to foster the New Age of whistle boards and hopes one day to have the whole Poststructural Era named after him. Dale will, by order of law, have to call it The Bushonian Whistle Board.
We’ll then have to mount a rebellion to create a Post-post Structurial Whistle Board, which will be turned back by the Bushonian stormtroopers and we’ll have to all fly to Canada on Dale Force One. On the way, we’ll all pull out our Eb’s and play a poorly rehersed Irish Washerwoman, which will cause the pilot to seizure and fly us into the Rocky Mountains. When the NTSB finds us a few years later, the only recognizable item will be an Oak whistle, whose fipple still tastes like chemicals.
I haven’t come to a final decision on how I feel about OT posts, but I will say that as the OT posts have grown in number and length I’ve been reading the Whistle Board less.
I DO enjoy hearing perspectives on different events around the world from people (around the world) who share my enthusiasm for whistles/whistling, but I think maybe this should be a secondary and/or minor part of the board, not the primary and/or major part (which is what it’s become lately).
I’m concerned that the “serious” whistle enthusiasts may take their discussions elsewhere if this continues and I’d hate to see the rather remarkable community Dale has facilitated fall apart after continuing for this long.
On the other hand (waffle waffle waffle), maybe it’s a cyclic thing and if we all just wait it out the number of on topic posts will rise (like the stock market).
Having stated that I am generally against controlled forums, and having posted silliness, I need to say that upon further reflection I find myself admitting that I skip almost all the OT subjects and look for the whistle topics. As the ratios of OT/whistle increases, my interest level may wane. I’m not sure that means I’d like to see less OT but it means that I’d like to see more whistle topics.
