Gentlemen,
I have been a member of C&F for almost a year and I want to say that it is a great service to the piping community. Many of the posts carry useful and good information, especially for the beginners. However, I have one complaint and that is the seeming inability of some of you to stay on subject.
As an example: suppose I send a post talking about Seamus Ennis’ piping and how I think it is “gold”. Someone will usually write , commenting on my post and give their opinion. But it never fails that by the second or third reply , someone will say something like “ I had a “Gold” watch once and my great grandfather…bla, bla, bla,” etc. Then another may talk about winning gold in the Olympics. Get the picture? The post is off and running, bearing no resemblance to the original post… this is very frustrating. It becomes almost impossible to carry on a dialog.
A while back Patrick Hutchinson, who has a PHD in Ethnomusicology and an expert in Irish music, who by the way is also a fine piper, tried to start a discussion on the Sean-nos style. Within a couple of posts the discussion was completely off topic and we all missed the chance to learn something.
So my request is for those of you who have a desire to ramble, try and stay on topic when answering a post. If you want to talk about your grandfathers gold then send a separate post. It will benefit us all.
All the best,
Pat Sky
Thanks… we needed that.
Good luck with it.
By the way, did I ever tell you about the gold filling I had in my tooth??..
Susan
This concern has been raised several times, and I believe the recent increase in censorship on this forum was partially directed at keeping posts in a more “serious, on-topic” vein. The result was that the amount of postings almost stopped completely. A new piping board went up at Anima Vitae (http://www.animavitae.com/php/index.php) with the declared intention to keep everything strictly serious and on-topic. The result has been no postings, to the point that the moderator there has several times suggested taking that forum down.
The people who want a deadly serious forum are obligated to actually contribute postings to such a forum to keep it alive.
I am all for good discussion of relevant piping topics, but I also enjoy the wild sense of humour of many posters here, and if things drift a bit from time to time, its all in good fun, and reflects the nature and dynamics of group discussions in the real world.
If you want dry academic papers on piping with indisputable declarations of what is and what must be, with the usual unassailable stance of academics ready to argue you into the floor on minutiae you could try setting up a site like that, but that is not my understanding of this forum. Also, I think you would have very little participation at that level.
If anything, I think this represents the difference between a “folk” forum versus an academic forum “about” a folk forum.
djm
Maintaining a topic is much easier said than done (I should know, I have hijacked more than my share) and while I agree that good piping topics are a boon to all of us at whatever level we may be at with piping, if that’s all there is, it would get old and fast… this forum isn’t a high school classroom… hopefully.
I am of the opinion that we all could exercise a little more adherence to topics, but when they stray (as they will ultimately do), then those of us who have a real interest in the subject matter can simply get them back on line by continuing to post on topic, or ask that we return to the topic. A politely worded request can go a long way.
Some threads stray, others stay on topic. I think that’s just part of the issue. Another part is, as Patsky suggests, missing out on the chance to learn something. Some participants in this forum have a wealth of knowledge to pass on.
However, I’ve noticed that the more knowledgeable the piper/pipemaker, the less time they have to spend on this forum.
I was digging the garden the other night when I found the biggest worm I have ever seen
RORY
“To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life’s but a walking shadow; a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.”
Still mustn’t grumble.
John S
Or it could be that those who spend less time on here become more knowledgeable through the learning and practice we’re all avoiding.
… and only after six posts, this one went astray. :roll:
Thanks for trying, Pat. As you can see here, the internet offers a new challenge to know what to do with people who have little or no self-discipline. I’ve noticed that many of the most qualified posters seldom post anymore.
At a live workshop, it’s possible to ask the trolling dominates, that don’t know squat about uilleann pipes, to kindly just butt out if possible. But here on the internet, the only thing to do is just ignore them like we’ve done so far, and carry on. There’s nothing that some of these folks would like better than to turn the topic into a comedy or an argument that they know something about, like “who” rather than “what.” Their only expertise seems to be in street-wise exprssions. They somehow need to be heard, even out of their element.
You might try begining a topic by requesting that the moderator delete such posts as you’ve alluded to, in order to have a meaningful discussion. Some children only respond to punishment.
… an interesting proposal. I suppose for a post that one wishes to keep ‘on-topic’ one could always type ‘On Topic’ before the subject, or as Lorenzo suggested, ask the moderator (moi) to keep an eye on it and edit out or move any non-topic responses. Hmmmm…
I think one of the problems is the linear format of this board.
Message boards are strange beasts, sitting halfway between e-mail and chat rooms.
Any message board such as this develops into a community way beyond its original intention. Some of us are “e-mailies,” some are “chatties,” and some are both.
I read most of the posts on this board, but I don’t have the time or inclination to write long posts.
I usually add short comments here and there.
A board format that allowed single topics to branch into several smaller threads, as in Google’s Usenet interface for example,
would be easier to follow, and it would allow posters to be more selective in what they read.
Mukade
Maybe what is needed is a sub-forum or set of threads for “pros only” or some such, where it is understood that of-topic posts will be open for deletion. I, for one, have gained so much knowledge from the experts’ posts here and would hate for them to grow silent, but I also do enjoy some degree of insanity as well.
I have one complaint and that is the seeming inability of some of you to
stay on subject.
It’s a tough balance considering the amount of people new to, or unobsessed with the music that participate. While I enjoy some of the comeraderie and feel it is necessary to the life of a board, it’s too often too much in relation to actual content.
I believe the recent increase in censorship on this forum was
partially directed at keeping posts in a more “serious, on-topic” vein.
My impression was it was a direct response to the personal imflammatory remarks made by certain people at certain people. The Anima board tries to keep an on-topic, good behavior sense about it, but IMO, that board simply became redundant when this well-established one reopened. That to me is the main reason why traffic is slow there.
I’ve noticed that many of the most qualified posters seldom post anymore.
There can be many reasons for that, good, bad, and indifferent. Mostly “indifference.” I agree it is tough to attract knowledgable people where there is more noise than content. Those with deep knowledge tend to be obsessive and look to still extend their knowledge, so when there’s little info to be had, there’s little reason to participate.
You might try begining a topic by requesting that the moderator delete such posts
As much as I don’t like too much off-topic material, I don’t think deleting is a great idea.
Patrick Hutchinson tried to start a discussion on the Sean-nos style.
… and we all missed the chance to learn something.
It’s unfortunate. I guess as DJM points out, while everybody here has some kind of affinity for traditional, or traditionaloid Irish music, not everyone has enough of the intellectual interest it might take to bridge over to something as alien as sean nos singing.
Personally, I think Bridget Fitzgerald (who Patrick is lucky enough to know and collaborate closely with) is an exceedingly fine sean nos singer, and I imagine much of what we’d learn from Patrick, comes from working so closely with Bridget. Again, it’s unfortunate that we’ve missed out on that kind of insight.
And others are so rigid in their thinking that this would be considered off topic. The greater issue here is simply that people have differing wants, needs and expectations from this board. I think our dear Moderator hit it right when he suggested posters make an honest plea to get a thread they consider important back on topic, and if people stray, simply ignore and talk around them. Most trolls get bored pretty quickly after all.
And let him without sin cast the first stone.Some people have a real cheek there is not one person who has not strayed or replied to a stray post .The vast majority or people would find this forum extreamly boring without a bit of fun thrown in .
For "serious "posters there is a forum created especially for you !!
http://www.animavitae.com/php/viewforum.php?f=2&sid=54d6d30349e2ab8ae7f5ffa75eba3635
Just be careful you dont trip over the tumble weeds when you get there!!
RORY