after a chat I had with a friend last night where she told me she had started using a different Cnat on her flute after having had her first lesson, it made me wonder if I should do the same on this grinter…
as I am still new to the flute playing, I do use the middle and ring finger Cnat and thought it was fine but now I am getting curious.
so I would like to hear your experiences to see how the opinions are and if they agree at all 
berti
I have Tipple, not a Grinter, but I’d be surprised if the Cnat fingering you are using would be a true Cnat on any flute. Depending on what I’m playing, I generally use OXX XOO, but OXX XXO is actually more in tune - sometimes I just can’t hit the latter in fast passages. But if I’m playing slowly, or the Cnat is important in the phrase, I make sure to use the 4-fingered version.
Your best bet: Play with a tuner. I don’t think there is any absolutely correct cross-fingering. The correct one is the one that is in tune on your flute.
I think OXX OOO (which is, I think, what Berti is getting at) is a fairly readily acceptable fingering for Cnat and proves to be well enough in tune on many flutes. OXO XXX is the only other common one that I am aware of, as used by a friend of mine on her Wilkes.
As you say, however, the correct fingering is the one that is in tune! Clumsy fingering may get in the way of the flow of a tune however, and the use of OXX OOO plus some judicious lipping, may be more in order.
Graham
The normal OXX OOO fingering is acctually too FLAT on my flute. But it is a flute that need a bit of venting the Cnat key to bring the C# up into pitch as well.
some Cnat thoughts:
the 1st octave oxo|xxx Cnat fingering has a harder, more consistent tone on my conical flutes than oxx|ooo. (thanks to JessieK for this bit.)
cylindric flutes like the Tipple and bansuri generally have a larger 1st hole, which means the 1st octave oxx|xoo fingering is more in tune than the other options.
in the 1st octave, oxx|xoo on conic & oxx|xxo on cylindric bore flutes can get you close to the “blues” 7th, which is a bit flat of an even tempered flat 7th. in the 2nd octave, a conic oxo|xxx is closer to the blues 7th, while oxx|xxo is more even tempered. don’t know about 2nd octave blues 7th on cylindric flutes.
have i confused everyone yet? all this is for me & my flutes.
ymmv! /dan
That’s some interesting thoughts Dan. You didn’t manage to confuse me that much yet (just a little 
). We’ve been trough this kind of stuff a year ago or so in school.
I’d have to say though that different flutes are tuned very differently, many are not tuned to an even tempered scale at all, espessially antiques.
The only place I have to add more fingers on a c-natural is with various whistles: ie generations. The flutes I have are pretty spot on.
what fingering(s) do you use for 1st & 2nd octave Cnat?
tia! /dan
I’ve never seen or heard of a pro player recommending any other fingering than oxx ooo for the first octave. That doesn’t mean you couldn’t do it, but I think the minor difference in pitch is best handled by your embouchure in that situation; having a consistant fingering for that note is important. Plus, it just sounds right to me, that note is not supposed to be clear and open. The upper octave is another story. I’d rather use a key, but since I don’t have one, I’ll use a few different options;
oxo ooo, oxo xxx, oxx xxo, xoo xxo, and half holeing of course.
YMMV,
-George
On my Copley, oxoxxx works best for the second octave (although I use the C-nat key more often).
I disagree on having only one fingering for C-natural. For fast tunes, sure, use what’s easiest (oxxooo or oxxxox are the ones I most commonly use), but there are times and tunes where different fingerings can be advantageous. Pipe players often humour the note, and the effect can be quite striking. Using various fingerings, a whole range of sounds and pitches between a true tempered C# and C-natural. Just two examples: Towards the end of the A part of Fermoy Lasses, for instance, a sharp C-nat fingered oxooo sounds cool (Micho Russell does something like this), and varying the timbre of the C-naturals in the Star of the County Down can introduce some elements of interest.
On my Copley, oxoxxx works best for the second octave (although I use the C-nat key more often).
I disagree on having only one fingering for C-natural. For fast tunes, sure, use what’s easiest (oxxooo or oxxxox are the ones I most commonly use), but there are times and tunes where different fingerings can be advantageous. Pipe players often humour the note, and the effect can be quite striking. Using various fingerings, a range of sounds and pitches between C# and C-natural can be produced. For instance, towards the end of the A part of Fermoy Lasses, a sharp C-nat fingered oxooo sounds cool (Micho Russell does something like this).
I guess we are the only two people with the same makers flutes, so this will probably apply to both you and I (and the people who have the flute he copied). I use the standard Oxx xxO for the second octave as Oxx OOO tends to jump up to the third octave D. A nice option that I have found for the second octave Bb is xxO xxx. It plays nicely on Jon’s flutes.
nicely stated, Tintin.
tunes in D mixolydian (or A dorian) sometimes work well w/ the flatter “blues” 7ths (which is an A dorian minor 3rd) fingerings. the A part of Rakish Paddy or Gravel Walk are fun w/ flatter Cnats. mixolydian & dorian tunes often have sections with an ionian or aeolian feel, so sometime you can use both the both flat and sharp Cnats in a tune. it’s fun in the run at the end of the B & D parts of Gravel Walk to use a flatter Cnat going up and a sharper one coming down. or, it will be fun when i can actually do that with some ease.
enjoy! /dan
This evening I tried all the standard fingerings on four flutes:
Bleazey – small-holed (his Rudall model)
Grinter – small-medium-holed
Olwell – medium-large-holed (his Nicholson-inspired model)
Schultz --large-holed
They all were most in tune using OXX OOO. In some cases, the OXOXXX was stronger and clearer, but it was a tad sharp. In the upper octave, OXO OOO worked on all but the Bleazey, and OXOXXX worked on all.
My take on the whole thing is, as others have suggested, it does depend on some extent on the context. In a fast reel, is anyone gonna notice if the OXO OOO is a little out of tune? If you can score a good roll using OXO XXX or OXX XOX, go for it.
My experience is that, on the Grinter, the two-finger Cnat is best, but it may very well be that another works best for you.
thanks chas…you are the first who tried this on a grinter…so this confirms my thoughts that the first oct Cnat is the OXXOOO as all the others were too sharp.
anyways how often does a second oct Cnat appear in tunes…so far, not yet in any I am working on.
interesting to see how many variations there are to try and that for all the other notes we mostly use the standard fingerings…
berti
I use the second octave Cnat plenty. For most, OXO OOO works fine. On the Bleazey, I need OXO XXX unless it’s a very short note. That’s clearer or more powerful on some others too.
On all of my flutes ( o x x | o o o ) is nicely in tune for a first-octave C-natural. This has been a standard fingering on the flute since the days of the traverso.
(o x o | x x x ) works about as well pitch-wise and, as noted, does give a little stronger timbre due to its venting. Also produces a nice stable 2nd-octave C-natural on my flutes.
I don’t really care for ( o x x | x o x ) as a first-octave C-natural as it is both veiled in quality and quite flat, although this fingering works quite well for most whistles.
To me the problem note on flute isn’t C-natural, it’s the 2nd octave C-sharp, which if you play it with all fingers off is usually very noticably flat. If you have a C-natural key one of its best uses is to vent the C-sharp and bring it up to pitch; in the second octave again I often use the old traverso fingering ( o x x | x o x ) with the E-flat key depressed as this is much better in tune, or for Pratten-style flutes, (o x x | x o o ) with the E-flat key.
–James
For me it’s just not been an issue. I guess there’s no reason why you couldn’t change fingerings from tune to tune, part to part, or phrase to phrase; it’s just not something I’ve heard or seen many players do. There are so many other things available on flute to change and color, that changing the pitch slightly (by switching fingerings) to fit the chord structure of a part while completely changing the tone of the note at the same time, doesn’t appeal to me. That being said, I’ll use a different fingering on a 1st octave C natural for a couple of embellishments. Like the Cnat cran from Rob Greenways website, and a bounce to a vented middle D from C.
All the best,
-George
I can’t sound-check the fingering as I have no flute here, but lately – and oddly – I’ve been liking OXX OXX a lot as yet another Cnatural shade, at least on my McGee. It flattens the C just a wee bit and makes it nice and dark.
Then again, my ear could just be goofy. Has anyone else had any luck with this fingering?
More X’s than O’s; maybe just because it’s Valentine’s Day. 
xo,
cat/
On the McGee I tried, I seem to remember the normal c-natural (o x x | o o o ) was a bit sharp.
In every other way, though, the McGee was a really outstanding flute. This was the flute that finally convinced me I wanted an Irish flute of actual wood instead of polymer.
–James