Having tryed to repair a few of these German flutes, I think the problem is when the Germans went for the mass produced “factory flutes” that sold in the Sears and Roubucks catalog. These were trully toys. I have a original Meyers flute, it is the sweetest flute you would ever play. I can see why they tried to copy it, but many times failed. A lot of the time, the German flute would not be completly reamed, making it unplayable. I have found a few that are in better tuning then there English counterpart, these are usually later models, many times made of Blackwood instead of the usual Ebony. My original 13 key Meyers is made of Madigascar Rosewood, the rings are turned wood clad in nickel silver. The post mount keys are mounted on small plates, which are screwed to the flute.
Here is a thread about it: http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?t=44277&highlight=meyers Notice the “modern” square embouchure, I guess we can assume it is not that modern after all!
Maybe I should lend it to you Jem and let you take it for a spin? It really is a amazing flute, you would fall in love with it.
Points well taken, Graeme. I guess I sidetracked my thinking onto the theme of vintage allure. That wasn’t the issue on this thread.
Aanvil, I truly don’t want to argue, nor insult - I pointed out you were not the “you” I was referring to so that you did not take offense and feel I was implying you don’t play well enough to judge a flute’s value; I suspect you do and can.
This is about whether a $300 keyed German flute might be worth a look, and I propose it surely is. Your advice was to pass without even checking it out, strange advice for someone that admits to owning three. I only own one, and am not in the market for another.
Change flutes a moment, and consider this:
Suppose we were having the same thread about an anonymous London-made flute for, say, $700. While $700 is cheap for a good one, not all of them are/were great flutes. Wouldn’t the advice be to check it out before spending the money, but, yes, definitely, check it out? After all, while some are on par with a Rudall and worth far more than $700, others are mediocre, or downright bad.
Now suppose it’s a real Rudall we’re talking about, and the price jumped to $2000. Reasonable for a good Rudall - perhaps a steal. But are they all equal and were they all gems? Certainly not. The advice? Check it out.
The broad brush I objected to was that a) all German flutes are shite, and b) all on par with Pakistani flutes, and c) therefore not worth anyone’s time. The advantages of German flutes (and perhaps the only advantage, to be fair) is that they are generally very low priced, and there is the genuine possibility of a gem among them.
Now, do I think most modern makers make superior flutes to German flutes, and that might be a better way to go? Some polymer flutes are good, as are some wooden starter flutes, but you are still in the same “mediocre” area as a decent German flute, sans keys. I personally think there is more of a reward, long term, in dealing with a good German flute early on than a PVC flute, or a bamboo one, for that matter, but I realize - and admitted - that this is my own bias. And the German flute has to be a decent player, and therein lies the argument.
I am not advising as an expert, whatever that means under these circumstances, but your rejection of German flutes altogether, given the poster’s original question, seemed wrong to me, and that is why I’ve responded so vigorously.
I’d rather not argue either… and in fact we really aren’t.
Go back and reread my unedited posts slowly.
You are boxing shadows.
Jem, take Jon up on his offer.
Its quite a beastie.
I think you will find it interesting.
If I could grab Mr. Peabody and use the old wayback machine, I’d love to see if Jem’s theory (using different heads for high vs. low pitch on the same body) holds true…if so, it surely seems to explain some of the tuning issues with these flutes.
I’ve owned an old German flute, played several others, and have heard very good ITM coming out of them - I agree with you on so many levels Gordon…but I do think modern polymer or wooden starter flutes (the ones made by actualy makers) have a much, much, much higher chance than the random anonymous German flute of being a good player.
So if you can’t go try it, I’d never recommend that someone buy an anonymous German flute unseen and unplayed unless they know they can fix it up, but I’d not hesitate to recommend a dozen or so good makers of polymer and low cost wooden flutes without hesitation and without having seen/played one (the buyer not seen/played one that is…I probably have seen and played one). Just try returning a flute to a closed German factory and it’s long dead owner!
Eric
That is such a lovely idea, Jon! It’s the sort of thing it would be wonderful to be able to do, isn’t it? Unfortunately, at c£20/U$40 P&P each way plus the risk of having hassles over import taxes and the ivory head even if it was clearly marked as a temporary loan, I suspect the logistics/expenses are prohibitive, even if the trust is there! I guess trying it out will just have to wait for me to win the Lottery and come on a fantasy world tour to meet up with some of you guys while tooting all sorts of lovely flutes! BTW, I went over to your old thread about it - I guess apart from the ivory head it may be really rather like my Rampone from your description of how it sounds etc. Can you give us some sound clips on it?
Wasn’t boxing at all, shadows or otherwise, Aanvil, … I re-read your post(s), and agree that you were less adament in your wording than I recalled, but I think we do fundamentally disagree on whether it might be worth one’s time…
Eric, yeah, you probably will get a more predictable starter flute from a decent modern maker, although I’d still say not necessarily a better one - provided you can find a good antique. I do like less forgiving embouchures, personally, and feel that they can teach you a lot about playing the music; same thing with (relatively) minor tuning issues. OTOH, some (not necessarily all) of the lower priced modern starter flutes I’ve tried leave me uninspired - not where I want to be starting out on flute. Just my take on it, really - wouldn’t recommend most of them.
For that matter, I feel this way about some of the higher-priced modern flutes, too, so I may simply be speaking in hindsight - a German flute is where I started before moving to better sounding wooden flutes made by modern makers. My personal experiences and journey don’t - cannot - speak for everyone, and so I’ll try to stay out of this one for awhile.
I have a german made in madagascar ebony (in fact you told me that, 'cause i post a thread asking for ). And it does have a big square embochure!
how common was this in the XIX c. in germany?
I really love this flute. I worked on it retuning and sealing cracks. it has a strong bottom and a really amazing second oct.
You may have noticed that all of those who mention having a really good German flute (and I’m one who has) have usually had quite a bit of work done on it by themself or someone else. And they’ve often owned a few not so good ones before finding the good one.
Why would you not go look at it if you’ve got a chance? Don’t worry as much about the tuning, which can often be easily altered: but consider how well it blows, which can also be altered but not as easily.
Or you could buy the Blackman flute I’ve got for sale for only a little more money and which plays better than all the German flutes I’ve seen except one.
Cheers
Graeme
Hey now… I can read this you know.
Yes, the I believe the Germans started the square embouchure, it was Terry’s last life, in old Germany… 