Just wondering how many full sets the average full-time maker produces a year? Geoff Wooff’s wait list is said to be about 12 years, whereas Seth Gallagher says his waitlist is about 10 months. Does it take Wooff much longer than other makers to produce a set from start to finish, or does he have a hellava lot more orders?
DavidG
Depends on how hungry the pipemaker is, plus how many orders they have. Seth has people working for him in his shop, whereas most pipemakers are going solo. Some makers that I have spoken with don’t want to be churning out sets like assembly lines, but would rather take their time. I believe this is reflected in the quality of the work and how much people are willing to pay for it as to whether or not the waiting list is long or short.
e.g. Geoff doesn’t kill himself churning out sets, but there are enough people willing to wait many years and pay large sums for his sets for him to be able to make a living.
djm
Geoff told me that it takes two months to manufacture a set of pipes, not including seasoning times of course.
Eric
If you define ‘churning out’ as being poor quality or not checking your work as you go, then you’re correct.
However, most turned (or engineered) products require time to ‘setup’ each operation, this can take longer than the operation itself. If you make several identical parts in one session (ie, batch like orders) you actually save time (overall) and in many cases improve the quality than ‘one off’ manufacturing.
No, I don’t mean rushing through the work and producing poor quality. I mean that some pipemakers find turning out batches of the same piece to be incredibly boring, and find meeting many customer orders to be too much pressure. Remember that the people who are making good sets are rather unique, and few and far between, as well. If they can make a living at pipemaking and not kill themselves, many will choose that. A slow, careful, methodical process seems to be preferred. If a pipemaker is hungry enough, he can, as you suggest, turn out many similar parts at once like an assembly line.
I am told that the greatest time hog in pipe manufacture is the resting period for the wood between turnings, easily a couple of weeks or more between each step, to ensure the wood dries slowly and evenly without splitting.
Another thing that slows down the process is that most pipemakers are always looking to improve their designs, both for sets and for reeds. This requires lots of experimenting in between sets, and is the reason why no two sets from the same maker will be exactly the same. Churning out many sets at once would indicate that the pipemaker believes he has hit the perfect design, and that it is repeatable for a production process. I don’t know many pipemakers like this.
djm
Many makers preturn lots of the component parts and this cuts down the lead time significantly. Seth Gallagher (I understand) has 2 or 3 people working for him. Obviously this cuts down the wait.
If you’re in such a hurry, why not just buy a Pakistani full set. They’re making them from molded plastic!!
j.i.
I believe that Seth has figured out a smart way to create a beautiful sounding instrument. Remember, he worked at Von Huene, a splendid flute producer. Seth is a smart man who has determined that the creation of a quality set can be made in stages and some craftmanship of the pieces/parts can be delegated out to make it a more efficient process. Seth is as much a businessman as he is a maker of pipes. Think about it, he’s not too different than a lot of us - he has a beautiful family, mortgage, insurance blah blah blah… he’s doing this to earn a living. Seth is the one who does the hyper-critical work in the manufacturing. The “less-skilled” (I use this term very reservedly) parts ie: bellows, ferrules take a great deal of care, but are time-consuming and not necessary for Seth to take on himself. The focus is to make a gorgeous set of pipes and not to be too exclusive to deny anyone access to his wares. It works for Seth. It is not the norm. In my opinion, Seth has developed a very solid standard for his pipes and having achieved this very high-quality approach he has taken the focus off experimentation. Brilliant.
The other method we’re discussing here is the one-man workshop. There is a completely different objective here. Innovation, experimentation and exploration are very much elevated here. You can almost guarantee that every set will have unique bits, customized to the buyer to a high degree. The two manufacturers that I see most like this are Geoff Wooff and Koehler/Quinn. Let’s face it - if Liam O’Flynn, Brian McNamara, Jimmy O’Brian Moran and the who’s who of talented pipers are after a set - do I really expect Geoff Wooff to put me (intermediate at best!) ahead of them? No way, and nor should I. Honestly I’d rather hear Maire ní Grada play than me.
Either way nobody is “churning” out sets. All of these makers are on the very upper end of detailed craftsmanship.
Not so custom : custom
Well put Paul.
Whip, whip it good!
With waiting lists…I’d much rather wait six months to two years for a great set. Than four months for a set worth nothing more than a few quide. I’m a person that likes more individuality in a set. Something that’s unique as much as your piping style. Not an identical set to Paddy Molones for instance.
That’s why I would perfur to get a set from a makers such as Geoff Woof, or Ian Mackenzie. Who’s set’s don’t have a manufactured feel and arn’t made in batches. But then again if your a beginner and wont to get your hands on a set ASAP. Then you might wont to consider buying from a piper who makes sets in batches.
The only reason why I ended up buying a Mackenzie set and not from Adrien Jefferies (who buildes sets individually) is:
a) Price, about $1000 difference
b) Ian had put his set up for sale and it was in good condition.
The only problem I have with Ian’s set (and I wish I waited longer) was the reads. If you do end up purchasing a full set from Ian (ausdag) I’d highly recommend you get someone else to make the reeds. I have apsolutely no problem with the quality of the set and how excellent a state it arrived to me in. No bumps or scratches on the box, and definetly no dents on the set. In reality the set was worth much more then AU$ 4000. Tony feel free to back me up on this 
.
Ian’s after sale service has been great (I’d reccommend him for beginners). He contact’s me about every two months to see how my piping is going and if I have any problems with the set. In my opion I’d much rather buy froma smaller man who doesn’t mass manufacture sets. But puts his time and effort into each set.
Cheers L42B 
PS: Nothing aginst Seth Galager sets. I’d reccomend them if you wonted a full set within a year. I haven’t heared anything bad about them
So from what I’m hearing here, and from other sources, Gallagher and Wooff can both produce full sets in about two months, so the difference in lead-time is down to other factors such as amounts of orders so far placed, how the maker chooses to pace himself and other jobs required as well such as repairs, reedmaking etc etc. Based on discussions with other makers as well, it seems that the average time taken to make a full set is in the vicinity of two - three months, although I imagine that if one were to go at it non-stop one could probably put the set together in a few days, not counting seasoning times. But you’d be pretty hungry by the end 
BTW - I’m not picking on Wooff or Gallagher for any reason other than they seem to be two of a handful of makers that everyone has some degree of familiarity with. I’m not trying to be judgemental in anyway.
Just trying to get some idea of the ins and outs of the whole manufacturing process here.
Two months would be the extreme end; other makers knock out sets in a fraction of that time. Geoff, for instance, employs many old world appointments to his sets and those require time.
Quality sets of pipes have defied mass production. Due to the low quantities and their low margins, pipemakers cannot order and stock up.
For Alain Froment, when he sees a set of his pipes, he also knows that every single detail was worked on by himself (although his wife does the bag covers!). He gets great satisfaction in that.
I’d always had the impression that most makers tend to do everything themselves. Unless you were in super demand, it would be more cost-effective to do it all yourself wouldn’t it?
A lot of makers have people working for them, Rogge has a workshop turning out the bits which he assembles and finalises, I assume Gallagher has a similar set up. I remember heather Clarke’s parents complaing about the fact Alain even made the screws he used himself, which increased the wait so much (his delivery times were less than a year at the time, don’t times change).
Geoff is meticulous in the same way, he couldn’t stand someone else doing the job, he tried teaching me doing the bags once but after I stitched a few inches he took over as my first attempt wasn’t good enough. that put an end to that, he now gets his bags from a guy in the North, stitching was wrecking his hands.
Leather bags could be purchased, bellows (or parts of bellows) could be outsourced, ferrules and keys (even staples) could be ordered from a foundry.
Alain does put threads on the regulator pins but what part from a catalog resembles the part that Alain has made? Is that really time consuming? No.
Should a maker select cane tubes or order blanks from someone with a gouging machine? Should they hand roll a staple or use tubing or ask a foundry to make staples?
My only wish for all of the top makers is that they would make and sell more chanters (being the engine of all sets). Having more great chanters in circulation would be, well, just great!
This topic has taken a strange turn…
David, to some degree it’s not important how many sets a maker can produce per year. Some are performing pipers (Brendan Ring or Tim Britton are good examples) so it’s hard to maintain accurate schedules when a portion of their time is spent on the road.
It’s been discussed before. On average, a maker may get in, a few half sets a month, one full set, repairs to a few things, a handfull of reeds, etc. One afternoon with a customer and some alcohol might set one’s schedule back a few days!
I understand how a maker would like to control every aspect of his product. This may not be practical in all aspects. Peter and Jim mentioned there are some items that can (and should) be outsourced. I agree.
The though of ‘best in their field’ should become more accepted. L&M and MacHarg are tops in bags and bag making. Why spend time ordering leather skins to sew bags when they can be made to order? Bellows… Michael Dow and CJ Dixon appear to have that area covered.
I’d always had the impression that most makers tend to do everything themselves. Unless you were in super demand, it would be more cost-effective to do it all yourself wouldn’t it?
Where do you draw the line? Bookkeeping, correspondence, sweeping the floor, cooking dinner for the kids, running power for that new lathe? It’s a business and each pipemaker makes decisions as to the value of his time.
For the makers who have apprentices, good on them. It doesn’t reduce the quality of the product. Remember, the maker did the engineering, made the tooling, setup the jigs and templates, selected the lumber and sets the pace the pipes are to be built.
L42B,
You’re making me cringe.
Ian is an excellent reedmaker. I’m sorry you feel differently about his reeds.
Mackenzie makes sets individually the same way Jeffries and so many other pipemakers do. They aren’t mass manufactured.
The set you bought from him is a no frills set with self mounts and fewer ornaments. The workmanship and tollerances of the machined parts are clean and sharp. If you wanted more decorations, his price would be higher. Call him for a quote and lead time to make a set for you. I’m sure you won’t be disapointed. The important thing to consider is the bore and design of the more expensive sets are the same.
One small thing and then I’ll shut up. On the topic of timing and producing number of sets per year, some makers prefer to work only in ebony and this gives them a chance to have an inventory of wood nicely aging and ready to use as required. Other woods can be much more complex in behaviour of drying, so if the maker takes on an order for a bizzarre fruitwood or decides to experiment with a different type of exotic wood, there is an extensive waiting period smply because of the maturing process of the material.
Sourcing for hardwoods has improved over the years. Getting the wood is not the constraint but how much can they stockpile and pay the bills?
Tony, yes, this topic has taken a strange turn… all I asked was what I thought was an innocent qeury as to how long it takes the average maker to produce a set - never wanted to make judgement on how many sets a maker can produce in a year. You know, one day I’d like to be making pipes so I’d lke to get some idea of what I’d be in for. And looking at the lead-times of some makers, I was just wondering what factors were involved in producing such times.
Jim and Peter - I was merely relating my impression based on the (full-time) makers I know who do absolutely everything themselves including, Tony, Bookkeeping, correspondence, sweeping the floor, cooking dinner for the kids, running power for that new lathe. They obviously find it cost-effective to do it all themselves and make (just) enough to live on.
Anyway, my initial question’s been answered. Thanks for all the input people.
Cheers for now,
DavidG