RTE Six One (the TV broadcast) just ran a news segment tonight on NPU’s call for government funding to help preserve the craft of pipemaking. Given the budget situation in Ireland, who knows whether any money will be forthcoming, but it’s nice to see the publicity, anyway. Good for NPU for getting the word out…
KAD
Well done NPU. There are few things left that are uniquely Irish and that are made in Ireland. The uilleann pipes must not go the same way as the shamrock (commercially grown in Wales), the hurley (again, most of the Ash comes from Wales) and Guinness (owned by Diageo, HQ in London).
A lot of the hurley manufacture has moved to Eastern Europe over the past ten years or so , especially Poland (see article) for a variety of reasons but mainly for the quality of the wood and the lack of good ash in Ireland.
http://www.rte.ie/player/#v=1083110
39 minutes in if RTE Player is available where you are.
Indeed, there can be a lack of good ash in Ireland!
What does it matter where pipes are made as long as the quality is maintained ? Are the pipes that Geoff Wooff made in Clare any better that the ones he now makes in France? Which would you prefer and set made by David Quinn in the USA or a set made by some have ago maker in Ireland?
RORY
Hi everyone,
I almost never post on this forum but I try to follow up what is going on in the uilleann world.
I’ve been making uilleann pipes for 6 years now. I’m not known as I’ve been very discret in my activity, but I’ve been in touch with the “masters” to perfect my technics.
I’ve had the chance to “spend” some time with historical sets as Kenna’s, Egan’s, Coyne’s, Harrington’s, Rowsome’s sets. This has been my way to learn what’s a set of pipes and how to make good sets.
I have a nice workshop at home with all the facilities to produce 5 or 6 full sets a year but I don’t have a commercial activity. I asked my self sometime ago if I would be ready to get in business but I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s very difficult and asking many sacrificies. Despite the fact that making pipes is really great!
I think that the main constraints are :
It is possible to make sets for 6000€ but not with the old masters standards. One of the best evidence of what I’m saying is Mr Rogge price list and sets quality. He offers standard and delux sets.
This rises some questions: what do people want? how much are they ready to spend and for which level of quality?
From my contacts with musician, I would say that people are not really ready to spend more than 5000€ but they do want top notch quality.
This brings me to my conclusion towards the nice RTE segment in their news: they are I think more people that we would expect able to make good sets of pipes, but the commercial market only motivates the bravest people ready to “live little”, without a lot of revenue. I really do respect these people.
I have the chance to very well know a breton instrument maker in Brittany. He’s making traditional instruments as the uilleann pipes but it’s much easier to live off this activity compared to uilleann pipes making. Market condition then.
Rise fonds to teach people, yes why not, help people succeeding in living off pipemaking would be for me the first step. If people are not ready to pay the real price of the craftmanship, they’re other solution but I don’t want to think about it because it would violate tradition.
That’s just my personal opinion.
Nico
Below few pictures of my self made B set based on Egan.
Beautiful work!
I appreciate the amount of time, craftsmanship, and money it takes to produce a full set of pipes, but does anyone have a solution to the fact that a lot of people simply cannot afford the 10,000 euro/pounds/dollars required to buy a really top quality full set.
Hi Nico…
Out of the closet at last? 
Congratulations!
Extremely nice looking set. I look forward to hearing it one of these days.
Nice to see RTÉ running this story. Fortunately I can report that even in the current climate, government organizations such as The Department of Tourism Culture and Sport, the Arts Council, and the Craft Council of Ireland have been supportive of the ongoing NPU project (which has been dubbed “PipeCraft”). NPU is also doing its own additional fundraising for the project - donations gratefully accepted! - and numerous musicians have donated time, effort, and participated in benefit performances.
NPU have posted some status reports on their site and in The Snug discussion forum. I can report that the training facility is really starting to take shape now, so progress is taking place on this front.
As for prices of €10,000, that’s a lot of money… but lots of music can be made on half sets or 3/4 sets which can reduce outlay substantially. Serious violin/fiddle players easily spend that much on an instrument; quality keyed timber flutes are not cheap either. The issue certainly seems a bit more severe with uilleann pipes, and the complexity of the instrument doesn’t work in favor of either maker or purchaser’s pocketbook, as NJH points out. But while arguably more severe, the problem is not unique to pipes, it affects many instruments that don’t have a mass market.
A really good instrument should be a lifetime investment. I think that at present the availability problem is probably more serious than the price point, from the perspective of a dedicated prospective purchaser. If the instruments are available, even if at a fairly steep price, one can consider financial assistance/grants for promising young students and their cash-strapped families.
I do agree with Nico that the financial incentives for learning to make pipes are marginal. There is a challenge or risk that, even if a number of people can be successfully trained/mentored/assisted in learning to make quality instruments, a minority will be satisfied with the resulting pay scale. I think this point needs to be communicated to prospective students early on. I believe that there is a role for NPU in providing other kinds of support for pipemaking as well, along the lines NJH hints, in order to help make it an economically viable activity. I think that once success is demonstrated in providing educational and skills advancement resources for pipemaking, funding agencies will be open to the idea of helping support or even subsidize it as a cultural activity. Already I believe that substantial capital equipment funding may be available (depending on the circumstances) to help a new maker set up shop, which in turn reduces the financial burden on new makers.
With regard to where pipes are made, well there are surely advantages in making pipes in Ireland; however there are certainly disadvantages too. Ideally one would be relatively near one’s customers. I believe that it’s more expensive to make pipes in Ireland than in many other places where they are currently being made, and availability of materials is a constant hassle; there are also various adminstrative, legal, and logistical concerns wherever one lives. In these last respects I think that not only funding agencies but NPU and pipemakers themselves can potentially improve the situation through cooperative effort and sharing of information - another aspect of the larger aspiration to “support” the art and craft of pipemaking.
best regards,
Bill
P.S. - Some may consider the financial points pessimistic. I don’t think so - a true pessimist would never attempt to make pipes in the first place. It may be that the natural arc of a pipemaker’s development is to start out an optimist, and settle earthwards from there 
Are there such grants available?
Yes.
For instance, I believe LEADER funds are available for capital equipment, depending on where one is located:
http://www.pobail.ie/en/RuralDevelopment/EURuralDevelopment/LEADER2000-2006/LeaderFAQs/
My understanding is that similar funds, (possibly from LEADER), may be available for appropriate training/tuition. I believe there’s some reference to this in the NPU discussion as well.
I believe that Udarás funding has been availed of in the past, for pipemaking workshops located in gaeltacht areas.
There’s a link for the Music capital scheme on the NPU site. Here. Applications should be in before Nov 2nd.
Out of the closet at last? >
Hi Bill, and everyone,
I couldn’t let this opportunity go without doing my coming out… I had to point out what seems crucial to me.
As you know because we discussed about it several times, I would be very happy in taking up pipemaking professionally but with certain conditions. I’m working at it but as a long term project. It’s even more difficult when you have a good job. It would mean a complete change of life.
I do agree with Nico that the financial incentives for learning to make pipes are marginal. There is a challenge or risk that, even if a number of people can be successfully trained/mentored/assisted in learning to make quality instruments, a minority will be satisfied with the resulting pay scale.
I think it’s a major risk. People have to know that getting out of pipemaking a net pay of 1500€ per month for at least 50 hours of work a week is an achivement. It takes 350 to 400 hours to make a full set of pipes depending on the “option”. On top of that, learning by yourself is really challenging and will help to develop very fine skills for those who are perfectionist enough. Pipemaking is a craftmanship that has to be learned over a long period I think. It will allow to get fine skills to reach a very important level of detail that is very important. In fact, all the instrument makers I know have learned their craft over several years.
A course will solve the problem of the pipemaker number but the risk is to end up with a “standardisation” of the instrument while many kind of tone can be obtained with flat sets.
A really good instrument should be a lifetime investment. I think that at present the availability problem is probably more serious than the price point, from the perspective of a dedicated prospective purchaser. If the instruments are available, even if at a fairly steep price, one can consider financial assistance/grants for promising young students and their cash-strapped families.
Something that would never happened but that can really help would be to have NPU offering special loan to help people to pay for sets. This rises other question and issues, but again, I think the investment should be made to get pipemaker carrier attractive.
P.S. - Some may consider the financial points pessimistic. I don’t think so - a true pessimist would never attempt to make pipes in the first place. It may be that the natural arc of a pipemaker’s development is to start out an optimist, and settle earthwards from there >
Making pipes on your spare time isn’t satisfactory as it’s very long to complete a full set and it takes extra motivation to go on.
But you keep being optimistic because each time you’re able to work several days in a raw on an instrument it’s so exiting!!
Nico
The best way to preserve Irish piping, in my view, is to mass produce a quality product. Instruments need to be reasonably priced so musicians with modest means can have access to good instruments. The high price of uilleann pipes is a bigger barrier to encouraging piping than not enough pipers in a particular geographic location.
The hand-crafted thing is all fine and good, but as long as pipes are churned out slowly from long waiting lists by craftsmen here and there, the price will be high.
The most obvious flaw in this plan, of course, is assuming the demand is worth a mass production effort. Is the demand there?
I wonder if some technical improvements can be made to the instrument so that keeping it in good tone is no more effort than most other instruments. Or is this as good as pipes can get? Does a large double-reed just mean all this aggravation?
Uilleann pipes need to be less expensive and easier to obtain.
Imho that’s bang on the money.I don’t know if it’s a general attitude with the majority of pipemakers, but on this forum there seems to be to much emphasis on what the “old masters” did and less on what the new masters are doing or did. Of course its up to the individual pipemaker if he more concerned with making historical replicas than musical instruments, but its extremely time consuming and does not serve the general pipeing community . Every set of pipes doesn’t have to be a bespoke creation and this is where one of the greatest pipemakers who ever lived was showing the way .As far as I know Alain Froment did not take requests from anybody regarding materials or style, if you wanted a concert pitch set you got one of his standard design, but it was of the highest quality as a musical instrument. I have heard from a few who knew him that he turned out nine sets a year which in relative terms is very productive.
I think a modern pipemaker should be looking at modern productive methods and I don’t mean setting up a factory but modern machinery and tools and attitudes that would help increase productivity,it could have the fringe benefit of earning the pipemaker more money
RORY
If by mass production you mean, hundreds of thousands of instruments, the demand is certainly not there.
Many instruments are being mass produced at very low prices - you get violins, flutes, guitars, clarinets, trumpets etc, made in the far East, at the supermarket for as little as 50 Euros. Unfortunately, the quality is not the best (although usually playable), and no serious teacher will accept a student playing such an instrument.
Pipemakers like Andreas Rogge, David Daye and Patrick Sky are offering budget sets at very favourable prices - not more than a reasonable student-quality violin and certainly less than a beginners’ piano. These instruments are usually available within a few weeks, if not immediately, so that is less expensive and easy to obtain. Obviously, price and the waiting time are not everything.
On this forum, as well as others, aspiring pipers are given two advices, which appear quite contradictory at first sight - “get a budget set by one of the aforementioned makers”, and, “get the very best you can afford”. The very best means, of course, high price and long waiting time.
Pipes on loan can be a solution to get people started, that can of course only work out where there is a larger community of people interested in ITM. One distraction is - I have three practice sets out on loan at present, and in two cases, I don’t see the students put as much effort in learning as they probably would, if they had had to pay a lot of money for their own pipes.
And, by the way, Rory, you are right - Alain did not take requests, he refused to make a little ring-shaped F key for the chanter he made for me, saying it is perfectly unnecessary. I never play this otherwise beautiful chanter, because if I do need the F key at all, it is the little one I use…
This idea that most pipemakers nowadays are making historic replicas is wrong. The vast majority of pipemakers do not even attempt to do that. This is NOT the reason that sets take so long to make.
However I think there are very good reasons why so many modern makers have such high esteem for the makers of the past, even those who do not attempt to copy their work or methods. It’s a terrible shame that so few pipers have the opportunity to experience the old masters’ work firsthand (in good repair and properly reeded).
There have been a few attempts to apply mass production techniques to uilleann pipes - with quite limited success, to date.
Improving the skills of existing pipemakers, and bringing more “lone craftsmen” (and women) into the field will go a long way towards improving availability. There are also some opportunities for specialization and cooperation which could improve the effectiveness of the makers we have already.
Points well taken.
Nonetheless, I’m sure there’s some good middle ground between mass produced poor kazoo-like instruments and instruments that cost over USD $8000.
That is not much for a musical instrument, although it is admittedly a lot for a folk instrument.
You can easily pay that sort of money for a violin without even reaching near the top class. You’ll get a fairly good concert flute for that, or a fairly mediocre piano. This money will buy you a good but not top class oboe, or you can use it to start saving up for a bassoon, which will cost you more than twice that money (and this is made from maple - cheap maplewood!!!). A good guitar can easily reach this price, so can an accordion. An entertainer’s keyboard is not cheap, either (and it’s factory produced). And for all these instruments goes the same - the more famous the maker’s name, the more you have to pay.
If you want the uilleann pipes to be esteemed as a “real” instrument, you must be prepared to pay real money for it. Pipers like Paddy Moloney, Liam O’Flynn or Jerry O’Sullivan (to name but a few) have shown very impressively that the pipes are capable of holding their place as a solo instrument in a classical orchestra, so IMO they are a real instrument, not just a folky thing.
People are more than willing to pay five times the aforementioned amount for a car which most of them will drive for only five or six years. If well cared for, your pipes can still be played by your great grandchildren - it’s more than a lifetime’s investment.
It is a lot of money, yes, but think what you get for it.