Do you think its a true indication of how good a makers pipes are by the lenght of his waiting list ??
Most well known is Geoff Wooff with a waiting time of fourteen years or maybe more now,but there are other makers whose pipes are owned by pipers on this forum who say their pipes are very good but seem to have no waiting time at all!!
Froment is another maker with a huge waiting time .Are his pipes really that much better that other makers ???
I think there are other factors that have given these makers long waiting times
You have to qualify what is said by who is saying it. What is their taste in pipes, and what is their experience as pipers? If a lot of top-notch and/or well-known and/or very experienced players are lining up to buy pipes from maker X then it is probably a good indication for the rest of us plebs where to look for good pipes, even though the special qualities of such pipes might be beyond our current level of appreciation.
I wish someone would start pumping out good uilleann pipes on a mass-produced basis. It could only help piping. Prices would go down, waitrs would go down, more people could learn, the music and instrument could become more widely known and better preserved (or evolve in different directions, also an interesting thing).
Question is: would demand be sufficiently worth the risks of investing in a startup company to mass-produce pipes?
Seems to me, uilleann piping will remain stunted if pipe production remains a rare and specialized artisan craft. GHB piping would provide a good model?
I don’t think that uilleann piping is by any means “stunted”. Perhaps you meant something else ?
If there were any money to be made at this (“pumping out good uilleann pipes…”) then somebody would already be doing it. It’s been tried (however, the prices have not necessarily been lower than the bespoke handmade instruments, and ‘the market’ has not rushed to acquire them). If, on the other hand, there isn’t a lot of money to be made this way, who with the necessary expertise would prefer to run a factory than a cottage industry?
This is aside from the question of whether such a thing is possible - let’s accept that it is. However, the requirements might be harder to satisfy than meets the eye. If you just churn 'em out like they’re furniture, or even “precision tools”… well, you know the rest.
GHB piping would provide a good model?
DJones
Now that’s a good way to start a flame war
For starters, it has often been argued that a trend towards uniformity, while bringing some level of increased convenience, would stifle many key elements of union/uilleann piping.
I don’t think that uilleann piping is by any means “stunted”. Perhaps you meant something else ?
Yes, yes: I referred to the number of players remaining stunted. (I am the only uilleann piper in my area within 50 miles, but GHB pipers around here are a dime a dozen) Threads on boards like this that address the wait time make it appear as though there are a lot of folks who want to play, but cannot acquire an instrument. Maybe that’s a false impression and, as you say, if it were true and money was to be made from mass-produced pipes, then someone probably would be doing it.
For starters, it has often been argued that a trend towards uniformity, while bringing some level of increased convenience, would stifle many key elements of union/uilleann piping.
Yes, but does that refer more to the music style and technique than to instrument design?
Now that’s a good way to start a flame war
(… referring to my suggestion that GHB pipe production as a model)
Yes, yes, I thought of that once I hit submit. However, I note that everyone who wants to play GHBs can get a set – usually without much of a wait. That may or may not be true for uilleann pipes. I honestly don’t know.
I´m with Bill, and IMHO it isn´t possible to mass produce such a complicated creature as UP (I mean, with a decent result) , for example some guitarrists in my country buy a guitar of their taste and then sends it to the luthier that changes vital parts of the instrument, re align it and recalibrates it others places an order to a new instrument to the luthier.
Musical instruments aren´t precision tools or furniture they are more, they dominates, modifies and denotates the movement of air.
Regarding Geooff Wooff ,apart from the excellent quality of his pipes is the fact that he only turns out 3 or 4 sets a year,which has to have some bearing on the lenght of his list,
but also regarding both Wooff and Froment is the fact that they have both been in business for about 25 years and when they started making pipes there was not that many pipemakers around .and so they established themselves as good and consistant makers fairly quickly.
There does seem to be an above adverage amount of accomplished players who play froment pipes and I would think that this would lead to their desirability and so long waiting time
RORY
PS I have also heard but its impossible to prove , but both Wooff and Froment have attracted what can only be called investment buyers!!
You can’t discount the celebrity factor here–quality alone might get the ball rolling and then when 7 of 10 high-profile piping CDs are recorded on a certain maker’s’ sets—you get the picture. People become entranced with a particular sound and think if they buy the pipes they heard they’ll stand a better chance at sounding that way. And, no doubt, a better instrument can make for a better player–but I’m not looking around for a Harrington set in the hope that I’ll be able to play like Ronan Browne in this lifetime.
Great topic. When I ordered a new set a year ago (with a maker’s estimated wait time of around 18 months) I first asked around to get advice on what would be a nice set to order. The answers I got seemed to make sense (get one by a high end maker in the same climate). So I ordered a Hubbert. That said, when a used Froment full flat set recently became available, I committed to making the purchase…and the reason has something to do with the celebrity factor. I have heard Eric Rigler play his Froment set many times, and the sound is fantastic. Combined with the wait time from Froment that approaches infinity…I was motivated to get it while I could.
IMHO, the best approach is to find now the maker who is going to be the next big name in pipe making. Buy a set from that guy. I have a couple of names to vote for.
Miki
So now that you have a Froment set ,do you think he deserves his 12 year plus waiting time??
I actually don’t have them yet (I had to word my post carefully!) …I’ve committed to buying them, and I’m still getting the funds together. The seller was kind enough to be patient while I do so. I expect to have them in the next 4 or 5 years (just kidding…the next 4 or 5 weeks), and I’ll give my opinion once I’ve had a chance to play them and get them set up for this climate. It will be a while (if ever!) before I can do them justice, I’m sure. At some point in the next year, I’ll have the Hubbert, the Froment Flat set, and the Brennan (attic set), which should get me though this lifetime.
Yes, yes, I thought of that once I hit submit. However, I note that everyone who wants to play GHBs can get a set – usually without much of a wait. That may or may not be true for uilleann pipes. I honestly don’t know.
