The Worth $$$ of a Whistle Tutor

Whistle
1

About 5 Years ago i found i started noodling around with a tin whistle,
I rose to the level of my own incompetence, and realised i needed help
Came to Chiff and Fipple
Sought help from a local Whistler
Read heaps, practiced lots…
and listened to heaps of recorded music

Not a bad start i thought.

then realised i needed more help,
played in a bush band, and got pushed beyond my own comfort level,
went to a Music school and got pushed beyond my own comfort level
practiced at home and pushed myself beyond my own comfort level
Its all good
ya just never know what u are capable of doing and accomplishing until you are pushed or guided a bit.
all critisism is good if it is constructive and helpful,

I recorded myself on a small recording device…wow wasnt that a good teacher, i found i am my own worst critique,
The joy of the whistle is the realisation that there is always some way to improve, always a new tune to learn,
and the joy of sharing your passion to those that will listen or play with you is priceless.

the question i have is …what is a teacher of music/ whistle worth??
i mean … i have been counciled by a person who is in my opinion a very ordinary whistle player but who has a good understanding of music
worthy of listening to
i have been taught by a wonderful whistle teacher and at a modest price, but only available 1 week out of a year.

I read lots of interesting things on this forum…its free and some of the info is priceless
Yet it has raised my curiosity what is a good whistle teacher worth on an hourly basis??
i know of fiddle tutors who charge about $40 Au / hour
and guitar tutors who charge about $50 / hour…
so out of curiosity …what is a whistle tutor worth?
it doesnt matter if it is in us $ or euro$
It would be interesting to learn what a fair comparison is.
anyone??

2

The only whistle teacher I’ve had was Laura Byrne at Baltimore Irish Arts
She really started me down the road nicely (for both whistle and ITM).
The lessons were $85 for 6 lessons @ 1 hour each (nowadays they’re
doing 4 lessons of 1.5 hours each). So, that’s $14/hour for group lessons.
Cheap as chips! But worth quite a bit more than I paid, I assure you!

I wish I lived in that area still, it would be nice to go back now that I’ve
played for a couple years and refine my technique with Laura…

3

It’s hard to put a price on such things, it boils down to what’s it worth to YOU - how badly do you want to improve in a certain area of your playing?

I’ve been fooling around with these instruments for more than a few years now, knowing full well I wasn’t any good as a player, particularly of ITM. Having finally found a really good ITM teacher recently, I’d say that, for me, it’s worth paying whatever I have to pay, because the results are worth it.

The thing about whistle, to a larger degree flute, and to an even larger degree ITM, is that it’s the subtleties that really make the difference, seemingly small, or unnoticed things in your playing that only someone far more experienced with the music can point out to you. The problem is, lots of folks have been playing a long time, and you may run into plenty of teachers, but if you want to find someone to help you with a particular style of music, like ITM, then you really have to find someone who plays well and authentically in that style, which can be hard to do, unless you live in a hotspot for that type of music.

Anyway, as for the nuts and bolts of pricing and such, here in Boston, I pay $50. an hour for my ITM flute lessons , plus travel expenses, and it’s a 4-5 hour roundtrip for me using public transportation, so essentially I’m giving up an entire weekday. Still, for me, it’s well worth every penny and every minute spent travelling. YMMV, of course.

My suggestion would be to seek out some instructors in your area, do what you can to find out about their musical background, see if you can find any of their students, and hear how the students play, and then if all seems good, take a lesson and see how it goes. If the instructor is really good, you’ll know right away, believe me. Particularly as someone who has played for a while already - if the instructor doesn’t immediately pickout things in your playing and then show you how to play them in a different way that makes you immediately go “Ah- HA!” Then you probably haven’t found the right instructor, and you can move on and save your money. Just my opinion mind you…

Loren

4

As Loren pointed out, what it’s worth and what the going rate is may be two different things. I’ve taken whistle lessons, but play flute now. The going rate is probably about the same. I pay one flute teacher $40 an hour. I get loads out of lessons with him, and I usually throw in a sixpack of homebrew. I pay another $60, and have to drive an hour+ each way, and he only teaches during work hours (and sporadically at that), so, as with Loren, I have to take at least half a day off from work. It’s obviously worth it to me, because I wouldn’t do it if it weren’t. I wouldn’t go every week (even if I made enough progress every week), because it wouldn’t be worth losing my job, but 3-4 times a year, definitely.

5

I pay $30 for each 45 minute session with my teacher.

6

I start flute lessons tomorrow with a teacher who is about 85 miles away. He gets $50 US for a one hour lesson, but says that they typically run 15-30 minutes long, so that equates to a little less per hour. I hope that he’s good… he’s the closest by about 150 miles.

He also does whistle lessons for the same rate.

7

I’ve gone the self-teaching route on a number of instruments (guitar, mandolin, banjo, fiddle, whistle), and really never had much “formal” instruction. I think I could have progressed faster if I had been more focused, but I’m not really sure having a tutor would have helped me.

The periods of greatest progress for me always came when I was actively jamming with other people, particularly when there was a lot of turnover, (i.e. new ideas and perspectives).

I feel there is so much information available now, (books, tapes, CDs, DVDs, internet) that wasn’t available in years gone by, that you’re better off to trade tips, techniques and tunes with peers in a social setting. Save your money to feed your obsessions! :laughing:

8

I don’t think there’s any substitute for having an expert ear listen to what you do and give you feedback. If you can get that via “jamming” that’s great, but I don’t find that I get nearly the amount or quality of feedback when playing with others as I do with my teacher. Your situation may of course be different.

9

I agree. People in sessions tend to be more leery of criticism, even
when it would help. If you’re paying someone to give constructive
criticism, he should have no qualms doing so.

10

You’re probably right. I think this falls under the YMMV category. If you really have a specific focus, say ITM, and want to really nail it in every regard, you really need a mentor. Same goes for classical or any other genre.

In my own case, I’m really a hobbyist, play all types of music, and have no particular ambitions to reach a certain level. So picking up tidbits from a diverse group of sources works well for me.

11

In the middle of florida Im paying a really good instructor 20$ an hour. I thought it was a screaming deal and given the other responses I think im right. For me I didnt have enough musical experience to get anywhere beyond mutilating mary had a little lamb on my own. The instructor has been the best thing ive ever done for my whistling.

12

My guy charges $20 a half hour, bt I live an hour away so I do an hour for $40. We never stop at an hour. He’s very generous.

Comparably: around here, typical band instrument teachers charge between $15 and 18 a half hour. I’m betting my guy is due for an increase.

13

I’m surprised to see that prices are around the same in France . I have subscribed courses for a year and it’s about 20 euros for an half hour ( $25 ..) Unfortunately, I’m wondering if I will continue next year … :confused: My teacher knows very well yrish style, he plays very well too, mainly flute and that’s why I was happy to subscribe to the courses. But, he has not really teach music until now, and I don’t find that I learn a lot with him… as soon as I play 3 notes and that he sees what I’m playing, he plays too and I’m not sure that he hears me … So, I don’t know what mistakes I can do … He even often plays alone to show the style but I’m not sure that I’m interested in that because I have a lot of Cds and can hear them outside the courses… In the other hand, he intends to form a little band next year and it will be interesting to take part… but for the courses , I don’t think that it’s worth for me to pay that price … :frowning: and it’s difficult to find teachers here, particularly for whistles … I find also sad to play alone and not knowing if I go on the good way or if I take some bad habits …

14

Nicole,

Sadly, it is often the case that the best players are not the best (or even good) teachers, as teaching is an entirely different skill set, so your experience is not unique, unfortunately. This holds true in most areas of expertise, not just music.

Finding someone who really plays well, and teaches well, is often quite difficult, I’m afraid. However, consider that your current teacher, while perhaps being and experienced player, is new to teaching, and so, just learning about that himself. You might do youself and your teacher a big favor by discussing with him the fact that you feel you are perhaps not getting quite what you need, and asking if perhaps he could consider some different approaches for you course of study.

If the teacher is truly interested in your development, he should be open to listening and considering what you have to say, particularly if he has an interest in improving as a teacher.

Good Luck Nicole :slight_smile: ,


Loren

15

While I strongly agree with Loren, I think it’s worth mentioning that there’s tremendous value in having a teacher play along with a student, as, if the student is a good listener, it highlights mistakes the student makes in a very dramatic way, especially in terms of timing and tuning. I also think that you can learn a lot from listening to (and watching) a teacher perform which you can’t necessarily get from a CD.

I don’t know if Nicole’s teacher is good or bad; I wasn’t there. But the things she says aren’t necessarily problems.

16

The only “formal” tuition I’ve had in Irish was a week-long summer camp last year. The actual classes mostly involved learning tunes via the “record and play along” method, so I was somewhat disappointed in the one-on-one instruction. OTOH, the summer camp/workshop approach has value in that it provides a challenge to improve and a goad into action.

Last year, when I told people I had been playing flute for a matter of months, they were often surprised at my progress. In reality I am coasting on 5 years of weekly, intensive GHB training I had as a kid. I can’t overestimate the value of that experience. If anybody knows of a really qualified flute or whistle instructor in North Carolina, I’d be willing to fork over some cash to get a similar experience.

Self-recording has been very valuable too. Some of the fluteboard regulars have posted some helpful feedback, so that’s been a good resource too.

One of the best skills one can get, for self-learning, is listening to ones’ self critically. But I dont think that’s really possible until one knows what to listen for, which can come from a good teacher.

17

I wasn’t suggesting (just to be clear), that having the teacher play along with the student, at times, isn’t beneficial - clearly it is. I’m just saying if that’s the instructor’s solution to everything, then there could very well be a problem.

But granted, I don’t know the teacher in question either.

Loren

18

Where are you located? The Asheville session is pretty strong, or was when I was in the area 3 or so years ago. Ought to be somebody connected with that session that can help, or point you to a good teacher in the area.

Loren

19

A friend of mine teaches fiddle, has been doing so for many years, and from what I hear is quite well respected by students of all levels who have studied with him. A few years ago he took up the accordion as a second instrument, and after he’d moved beyond the beginner level on the box himself (didn’t take him long, actually) he mentioned to me that he was playing tunes on the box for his fiddle students to play along with at their lessons. I jokingly accused him of figuring out a way to get paid to practice the accordion, but in thinking more deeply about it I think it’s actually a good approach. As has been pointed out here, there are pros and cons to having the teacher play along with the student at lessons. Obviously it’s a good thing for the student to learn to play with others, and having a better player voicing the tune for you gives you something to “hang” your playing of the tune on as you struggle with things like not losing your rhythm during tough fingering passages (or conversely, not speeding up when you hit an easy spot), playing in tune both with others and within your own instrument, etc. But the big con of doing this is that when you’re playing together with a better player of the same instrument, you may tend to think that the good things you hear are coming from you when really they’re not. Also, it’s harder for the teacher to hear what the student is playing and isolate on the aspects that need improvement. Having the teacher playing a different instrument than the student preserves all the benefits of playing along and eliminates the negatives. Of course, not all teachers are multi-instrumentalists.

With that said, though, any good teacher will have the student play alone for a large chunk of the instruction time, if for no other reason than that’s what the student is paying for - instruction on how to play alone with no crutches of any kind. This is why one-on-one teaching is better than group classes at summer schools and such. Not that those aren’t worthwhile, but in my experience many teachers of group classes never have the students play alone and offer them feedback. Some do (Catherine McEvoy comes to mind here, Marcas O Murchu as well), but offering criticism to an individual in a group setting requires a high level of skill and tact, so it’s understandable why many otherwise excellent players and teachers decide they’d rather not get into that.

20

Where I’ve studied whistle and fiddle, Old Town School of Folk Music in Chicago, its possible to take private lessons but the grand bulk of students take group classes in an eight week semester.

Being able to play with other people is a high priority.

If you’ve played fiddle, chances are you’ll admit its a bit more difficult to stay consistantly in tune than on a whistle.
In the beginner to intermediate fiddle classes the usual protocol is once the class learns a tune phrase by phrase by ear the teacher switches over to guitar or has invited a guitarist in to accompany the class.

There’s a mixed ensemble for ITM and the whistle teacher who directs that class is constantly reminding all his students where they can supplement their education with sesiuns.