On 2002-09-19 20:20, Loren wrote:
Okay Bill, er…
First off, Jessie does know something about flutes, having learned how to make them during a visit with Dave Copley (maker of VERY fine woodenflutes) - search the archives for photos etc. She’s also visited the shops of and talked shop with a number of top makers, including none other than Patrick Olwell. Jessie has in fact made some very nice wooden and bamboo flutes herself. Just an FYI.
Excellent information. Actually, I never doubted that Jessie was coming from a position of knowledge.
Okay, The fact is, there are lots of whistles that have cavities in the fipple plug, and it does affect the tuning…but not in the way you might imagine. And, filling in that cavity doesn’t automatically throw everything out of whack, which along your lines of thinking it would.
Actually, Loren, I have no “line of thinking” yet, just some lines of questions. I didn’t think a recess in the fipple would throw things out of whack, but wondered what the effect might be on a couple of factors, i.e. fingerhole placement, and high-octave to low-octave temper. I based my questions about this on the flutes and whistles in my possession. I have two glass Hall flutes, a G and a D, one Boehm system “Cadet” which, I believe, is from Selmer/Bundy, an old grenadilla wood French system flute of indeterminate origin, and an antique wood piccolo that my Mom gave me, also with no maker’s name. In whistles, I have two black Clarkes, a D and a C, about five Clarke Megs in C, a Sweetone, and one plastic-mouthpiece, nickel whistle with the brand name illegible. I also have several that I’ve made, and an old Chinese D. The differences between the positioning of fingerholes to “blade” is, in a word, confusing. I am not, as Jessie seems to have inferred, questioning the absolute placement or diameter of the fingerholes, but the ratio of placement with respect to the “blade” area, which seems to differ a bit from instrument to instrument, and definitely differs in the flutes, from the placement ratios of same in the whistles I own and have made.
There’s really too much here to get into. My advice to you, and I mean this in a helpful way, no sarcasm intended: You should A) Buy more whistles - it’s sounds like you haven’t seen enough different designs yet, and B) Hit the books and bone up on your flute/whistle acoustics - it really does sound like you’re flying blind.
Well, not entirely blind, though I’ll readily admit that I don’t own a bunch of different sorts of whistles. As to hitting the books, well, the reason I’m asking questions here, is that I can’t find the answers to this particular line of questions in any of the books or online guides - just the practical results of the differences I see. I thought someone here might have a ready-to-hand explanation. If not, that’s cool, too, and I’ll just go ahead and experiment. What’s it gonna cost me? .. a few bits of tubing and a few hours, and if I come up with something good, well, it’ll be time and materials well spent. Otherwise, it’ll be a valuable part of my learning process. Positive results, either way!
Loren
P.S. Oh yeah, and C) Try not to piss off those who know more than you (not like I follow my own advice on this one but hey…), which of course means getting to know the players around here before taking an argumentative tone with folks who are trying to help…and I ain’t talkin’ bout me.
I honest-to-gosh didn’t mean to seem argumentative with Jessie. My argument is with myself, and what I was trying, possibly not too well, judging by the reaction, to do, was to see if she had some information that would somehow magically square the differences I have measured, between the flutes and the whistles! From another perspective, of course, she could easily have simply said “I don’t know why you get different answers, go look it up in a physics text”, and not gotten pissed off, especially given that I’m not questioning her expertise. Shoot, I’ve been programming computers for about 30 years, and I will readily admit that there is still a pretty good-sized library of knowledge about that art/craft, that I don’t personally possess, and to which I will send anyone who asks me a question to which I don’t have a ready answer.
Bottom line, what I said to Jessie was not in any way disagreeing with her. All I did was to lay out the facts as I have seen and measured them, and asked for an explanation for the differences. I didn’t expect her to have an answer; I merely hoped she would! Hey, I know it flies in the face of theory, to one extent or another. But now, the differences still exist, I still have no answer, and now Jessie threw up her hands and stomped off, apparently thinking I was picking a fight with her.
(… sigh…)
Bill Whedon
Still, I’m notable as a dummy…
Best of luck to you!
Gods, what a dumbass I am! Since the “thickness” causes the pitch to flatten, you can move the center of the fingerhole up closer to the blowhole!