Susato Design Change?

Whistle
1

Finally after much effort and sage advice on here, the thread below was particularly helpful my thanks to the OP

https://forums.chiffandfipple.com/t/taming-the-dreaded-susato-beast/41162/1

I finally ‘got’ the dread Susato I had and went from hating it to playing it almost exclusively (S Bore Kildare High D)

The one small niggle I still had was a slightly nasal, sour quality in the lower register, but as the whistle was superb otherwise I ignored this.

Anyway a couple of weeks ago on Ebay someone listed a ‘Black Plastic Whistle D’ this was in fact a slightly tatty, scratched S Bore Kildare High D, minus thumb rest and case (it was in a Dixon case actually) As it was only ten quid, carriage paid I thought it would do for carrying in my rucksack.

Turned up a couple of days later, and I noticed a few superficial differences from the one I already owned, the gold Susato logo was higher on the head piece, the tuning tenon was different, smooth apart from a single groove with an ‘O’ ring, and the ‘E’ hole was noticably smaller.

However after a few minutes playing it was obvious that it’s a much nicer whistle than my other, not quite as loud, but still louder than most whistles, upper octave is a little smoother, less shreiky at the top and the lower octave is lovely, NO trace of that nasal quality the other has.

I’ve examined the head closely and can’t see any discernible difference, so why does it sound so much better?

And can anyone tell me from my description roughly how old it is?

2

I have 2 S bore D Susatos and a side by side comparison shows a number of changes. The head on the older one is more tapered and the mouth piece more rounded. The O-ring area on the newer has additional rings which I think are intended to indicate how much of the tube is extended. E hole is a bit lower on older.

I happen to have calibers here at my desk and the bore size seems unchanged.

The older whistle seems a bit brighter and louder. But based on what other people have posted, this may just be the normal variation that you can find in these instruments.

I have no idea when these changes may have occurred, but I suspect they may have as much to do with manufacturing efficiency as with attempts to improve the sound.

3

I had chance to play a friends Susato this weekend, gold logo is lower on head, tuning slide has the numerous rings and a slightly bigger E hole like my original Susato, again nothing like as nice as mine (my friend agreed with this)

Are the rings on the tuning slide intended as indicators for how far you have it ‘open’ or are they to increase surface area to hold more grease?

4

I received a Susato Kildare SB D whistle a couple of weeks before Christmas. I think it’s pretty outstanding for the price. I have a few others, Freeman Blackbird, Dixon Trad, Feadog, Clarke, but this is becoming my favourite. It is really responsive and plays better than the others. In A/B comparisons on recording I guess there is a little less chiff or air in the sound compared to my Freeman but the playability is much better. When I first got it I was dismayed by the high A and B being to harsh but with practice they have become much sweeter. I love the thing! Recommended.

5

When I saw the title of this thread I thought it referred to the near-complete design change Susatos when through many years ago.

The original Susatos were machined out of PVC stock with a wood block. I had those in high D and mezzo A and G. They were wonderful whistles.

If I recollect, they were only available in a few keys, those and Low D. A friend still has his c1980 Susato Low D, all machined from PVC stock, with wood block.

When they switched to injection-moulded plastic it struck me as a downgrade, these whistles not having the same quality of tone as the older machined ones.

6

I wonder why that would be as injection molding is very precise. The geometry of the windway, ramp and fipple should be nearly identical. I wonder if he made some tweaks to the design in the process to get a sound that he preferred? There is really no reason a molded whistle should be any bit inferior to a machined one. Look for example at the good reviews that those molded UP chanters have gotten. Both Seth Hamon’s and that now defunct company whose name is escaping me right now.

7

Not something that is borne out by other examples of injection moulded whistles/whistle heads.

8

I don’t know if it has anything to do with the topic of this thread or not, but there are a lot of knockoff Susato-type whistles out there right now.


Also, when it comes to higher quality injection-molded instruments, surely a lot of post-injection molding work has to be done after the process to put on the finishing touches. I imagine this part of the process would effect the quality of the end result.

9

With Susatos I’m not sure if it was the fact that each whistle was machined by hand, or because the specs had changed. For sure the injection-moulded Susatos have a different tone than the old machined ones.