Actually, I have not seen a bird pluck, but I have plucked a bird.
Well, it seems to me that a sparrow harassing a hawk or a crow is a pretty plucky bird
I’m sorry, could you please repeat the question
There are some really sick people on this bulletin board! I think I’ll be right at home!
The guitar player in my band gets really annoyed if I sing a Song while he’s Tuning. I think that in some way that proves Jessie’s point.
Tom
p.s. Jessie, what was your point, again??? (:
On 2001-08-22 11:20, JessieK wrote:
Ok, we’ve gone over this a lot over time, but for newcomers…A tune is instrumental…it is a melody without words. A song has words and is sung with the human voice.
Well, despite the onslaught of jovial B.S. that followed this post, Jessie, you are absolutely right and it is a shame that your point was overshadowed by a plethora of gleeful nonsense. Yeah, I know… people were just having fun. But if anyone is truly confused as far as any “grey area” all I can say is figure it out yourself folks.
[ This Message was edited by: Feadan on 2001-08-23 11:14 ]
A rose by any other name…
From the above examples it is obvious that there has been a certain amount of license taken with the strict interpretation of tune and song, and certainly by others before my time. Gleeful, yes. Nonsense, no.
I think we are in agreement that, in the strict academic sense, the difference between a tune and a song is acknowledged.
Sort of like the difference between saying
“Can you throw me a life preserver?” and “Will you throw me a life preserver?”. The latter is of course academically correct if you are asking for some assistance, and not assessing ability.
Further, if I am playing music with my brother, a veteran musician of 40 years, and I say “I am going to play a tune. Can you sing it?”, he will sing although in the strict academic sense, he cannot sing a tune, nor did ask him to sing it; I merely asked if had the ability.
Point being is that he knew what I was talking about.
On 2001-08-23 11:59, StewySmoot wrote:
I think we are in agreement that, in the strict academic sense, the difference between a tune and a song is acknowledged.
I’m not sure why you in particular felt inclined to respond as my post was not aimed at any one individual. As far as Jessie’s point being “acknowledged” it appears to me quite the contrary. The posts that followed Jessie’s, albeit not intentionally perhaps, served more to grossly undermine her point and make it appear more as a silly triviality than a valid issue. Now please, I am not pointing to yours specifically or anyone elses. I am looking at the whole not the parts. Sure, folks use the phrases like “What songs do you like to play on your whistle” and we all know what is meant by that. But the fact remains that it is wrong.
As a parent if my children use bad English I will, out of my love and concern for them, correct them even though I understand what they are trying to communicate. If people really want to get into the “Yeah, but what if…” thing I repeat, figure it out yourself.
Cheers,
David
OUCH!
Well, before this thread gets out of hand, let me reitterate what dear Lee Marsh always says:
ENJOY YOUR MUSIC!!!
…as whatever we perform, be it a tune, a song, lilting, throat singing etc. ad nauseum, we do it for the love of the music, it’s history, and culture.
Best to all!
Bri~
In all seriousness and not to be a smart ass (not that I ever would be mind you) I am curious as to whether lilting would be considered song or tune.
The voice is used as an instument would be to produce notes not words as in a song, yet the voice is used for song not tunes. Interesting grey area.
Feadan–
I believe you’ve misunderstood–of course what Jessie said was right on the money. I don’t believe anyone is disputing or trying to “undermine” her point with all of our “jovial B.S.”
It’s a pretty clear issue, really, although as several have pointed out there are some interesting grey areas. Songs are sung. Tunes are played. Beyond what Jessie’s already said, there isn’t really that much more that can seriously be said about it, is there? It is not, as they say, rocket science!
Lighten up! (:
And Jessie, if you’re still with us, I hope you’ve not taken any offence at our silliness–your original point WAS right, of course.
Tom
I think collectively our POVs have raised the level of consciousness of how to accurately the sounds we call music.
I’m a bit puzzled. I’d thought Jessie’s original post was intended to be lightedhearted, to perhaps provoke some fun responses or discussion. Which did happen & which I enjoyed. You mean it wasn’t?
I guess I’m musically incorrect, but it just doesn’t matter much to me which word one uses in this case. I agree with Brian, enjoy it, whatever you call it . . .
Tuaz,
May I ask where you are posting from?
Blaine
Singapore, why?
Just curious, I hope you don’t mind.
I wondered if you were somewhere in Asia and thought to myself it must be about about 6:30 or 7:00 in the morning there.
Most of my friends are international student, including a number from Malaysia, Indonesia, and Singapore. 
Zai Jian (?)
Got home late (ugh) from work. Going off to bed now.
Wan An (ie, Good Night)
I figured it out long ago that the world is more grey than black and white. And Jessie’s question comes up more times than I care to think, and it is alway --If—But—What is —if this is----
As to Jessie’s question, who posted it? Because if you read carefully she was answering someone not on the present board, even if you go back 5 pages.
So my conclusion is that like Loren, Jessie posted something that would lighten the air, knowing full well what she was doing.
And I am not speaking with tung in cheek. But its to sune to tell.
Mark
I believe you’ve misunderstood–of course what Jessie said was right on the money. I don’t believe anyone is disputing or trying to “undermine” her point with all of our “jovial B.S.”
I thought I had made it clear that I did not think anyone was “trying” to undermine the point. And I hope no one was offended by my use of “B.S.” Read it as a casual usage and not an angry one please.
Beyond what Jessie’s already said, there isn’t really that much more that can seriously be said about it, is there?
Absolutely. Look, I’m really not trying to be a wet blanket here. Jessie made a good point in a friendly fashion. Then things digressed with folks having fun and getting quite silly. Hey, I like having fun and getting silly. I guess if anything in all this bothers me it is that even in fun the pedantic “what if” type of replies to messages of this sort do tend to downplay the importance of the original point (i.e. not to take it seriously) whether it is intended or not. As I said I certainly did not think anyone intended this but the effect remains. I just wanted to put in at least one “Yes, Jessie. You’re right. Good point. Thanks!” response. I don’t believe any of the other posts could be interpreted this way.
Cheers,
David de la Barre
Feadan, I wasn’t offended by your comments - afterall you did qualify the B.S. with the adjective jovial which, to me at least, indicates a “casual usage” as you stated.
However, I was taken aback by your comments. Correct me if I’m mistaken but isn’t the entire point of this type of a discussion to learn by sharing information, by sharing opinions, and by asking questions? Thus, asking legitimate questions like “Is throat singing actually singing or is it tuning?” does not undermine Jessie’s point. On the contrary, it shows that people have taken what she said seriously and are thinking about it more deeply. In doing so we have treated we have achieved our goal of learning and we have treated Jessie’s comment with the respect it deserves. Thus, I must agree with StewySmoot “I think collectively our POVs have raised the level of consciousness of how to accurately the sounds we call music”