So I stepped one foot into the dark side . . .

Irish Flute
1

and bought a flute (Copely and Boegli delrin). This really makes a beautiful sound.

After playing this afternoon, my left thumb hurts a bit from supporting the weight I suppose. Any advice to a newbie on how to hold this thing so I don’t have the pain? (The only other flute I’ve played is a bamboo Dizi and it’s much lighter.)

(Having sent the above before anyone answered, I looked up my copy of G. Larsen’s book. He’s got pages on how to hold the thing. This should help, but any advice you’ve got will be appreciated.)

2

I had the same problem when i first started playing a heavier flute, first a delrin Seery and now a M&E 8 key but my understanding from reading various sources, mainly this board is that the flute should be suppoted on the first part of the index finger; please correct. I now take most of the weight on this point and have manged to stop trying to grip the flute with my thumb, it feels a bit insecure at first but you get used to it and it allows the use of the Bb key.

3

If you’re resting the flute on your left thumb, like I do, then pain will be there. It’s important not to overdo in order not to open door for health problems. You didn’t mention if it’s your first flute. If it is, then learning how to play makes you hold the flute tightly and overdoing comes naturally. Remember having longer stops after you’re feeling pain in your thumb. With time the pain gets smaller, as you find the spot for your hands. When I started with the flute, I had a different position for my thumb than I have now - I have found the best one for me: thumb touching the connection border between head and body.

or, what westwind said.

4

Follow Grey’s book–unless that doesn’t work for you. But it probably will.
Takes some getting used to but, as westwind says, you get used to it.
And it facilitates the use of keys if ever you go on to them.

Also a lesson from a teacher about holding the flute isn’t a bad idea.
Holding flutes definitely is an art.

5

the flute should be supported on the first part of the index finger

I’m sorry- doesn’t the index finger stay on top of the flute?

Signed,

Puzzled in Birmingham…

6

Three points of support: the knuckle of the left index finger doesn’t go underneath the flute at all, but rests on the far side of the flute and presses the flute gently in towards you. The end of the right thumb goes again not underneath but on the near side of the flute wall, and presses the flute gently out away from you. The chin also presses gently outwards.

With these three points of support, the flute is balanced and is stable. You don’t “grip” a flute, you don’t “hold it up”–you balance it. Nothing goes underneath the flute at all, just pressing gently on its sides.

If you do this correctly, you won’t need your left thumb to support the flute at all, and it’ll be free to work the B-flat key as needed.

–James

7

I don’t know whether flute playing is considered the dark side, or not. I thought that term was reserved for other instruments discussed in a different forum that I won’t mention so as not to offend the sensitve ears of any flute players.

I pretty much agree with James except with his comment that you don’t hold up a flute. Of course you have to hold the flute up, else it would fall to the floor, which was one of my major worries when I first started playing the flute. What James means, I presume, is that you go about this process of holding up or supporting the flute in a balanced and nearly effortless way (once you get accustomed to it) with the three points of contact that he mentioned. I commonly use a fouth point of contact to further stabilize the flute, and that is my right hand pinky resting on the top of the flute much of the time. With the Boehm flute the right hand pinky depresses a key for many of the notes. For simple-system keyless flutes I think that it makes good sense to use the RH pinky to add additional support. Having that finger do nothing doesn’t make very good sense to me.

8

Doug, look at it this way: you don’t “hold it up,” you merely take away every direction in which it could possibly fall. :slight_smile:

–James

9

I’ve always thought of it as applying a mild but authoritative gravitational counter-insurgency.

Stretching helps me: spread fingers wide, and touch all fingertips to those of opposing hand. Push to bend all fingers backwards. Then clench fists and repeat. Seriously, it enhances your flexibility, builds the muscles, and reduces the strain of playing.

10

Hi Keith,

Welcome to the “dark” side. I of course assumed right away you were referring to dark tone production!

Hey - re: your comment, without seeing what you are doing it’s tough to give beneficial advice. I’d recommend you watch some of the pro’s on youtube & see what they are doing.

I’ve been playing for about 22 months & still get cramps in the “meat” of my left thumb, down in the palm.

concentrating on relaxing, stretching, trying not to hold the flute too tight all help, but I made myself a “crutch” out of a section of cpvc pipe cut in half, take 1/2 and sand ends smooth and rubberband intoposition on the flute. Effectively makes the flute wider, easier for me to grip without cramping. & chicks really dig it too!

G’luck on your journey,

Deisman

11

Thanks very much to all who have commented. It’s been very helpful. Any more advice or comments would be still be more than welcome.

I mean “dark side” in good humor. I’ve got a number of whistles, including several low Ds. Some of these cost a bit, but really nothing compared to flutes. So I’ve got one foot in the flute camp, hoping that I don’t wander too far astray and lose all my money.

12

As others have already suggested, it’s good to begin with a three-point grip on the flute, 1) chin, 2) base of index finger, and 3) tip of thumb.

Then, however, it’s a game of experimentation, and patience, while you make about a million and one teeny tiny adjustments.

You’ll know you’ve got it right when everything works just as it’s supposed to and with the least amount of effort.

Hint: Find ways to keep stress and pain to an absolute minimum, including fingers, hands, wrists, and all.

13

I also had pain in my left knuckles when I started that I found later was due to tension more than weight. The pain went away as I learned to relax. I think the post about the 3 points of balance is great. I wish I had read that at the beginning of my playing.

14

Even the heaviest flute I’ve played, the 6-key M&E (which I think probably weighs more than twice what my 6-key Hamilton does) really isn’t all that heavy.

It just doesn’t take that much muscle to hold up. A grown man or woman should be able to hold a flute in playing position very easily for an hour or more with no real strain. When you hold the flute, if you feel anything tight or tense or any muscle feels like it’s really working, you’re doing something wrong. Over time, not only would you risk repetitive motion injury, also it will slow your playing down: tense muscles are slow muscles.

–James

15

Is it just the weight on ones arms or that with a heavier flute and three support points that are as near to the sides as the bottom one has to press sideways a bit more ? It is the slightly increased push transmitted via my left wrist that I find most noticeble with a heavier flute and that I need to be careful about. And the balance - tending to slide down the chin rather than ride up or be balanced.

I’m looking at your avatar James - how is the weight distributed ?

16

I don’t ever think about it in terms of how the weight is distributed, so I had to pick up a flute and try it to answer this question.

The weight is between the hands and also shared a bit, I think, by the chin.

Again, I don’t think about weight because you really don’t hold a flute “up” so much as you balance it.

When the flute is in balance, it takes very little effort to hold.

–James

17

Thanks. I’ll explain a bit more because I don’t think its off topic.

I have two flutes. One is slightly more heavily built and has a slide, partially lined head and a single key. The other is more basic. With my hand size the lighter flute will balance on my left hand if I let it rest on my thumb (which I don’t whilst playing). The heavier flute is head-heavy (it would not be if it had a full complement of keys). The holes are in roughly the same places.

So the physics of the thing is that the head-heavy flute needs more support between the left hand and my chin. At two extremes I could support it with my chin or I could take no weight on my chin and so have to hold it down with my right hand - probably fourth finger. Put the head from the lighter flute onto that flute and the situation changes, it would now move up on my chin so needs to be stopped by friction or by the body being held up by my right hand.

These possibilities make slightly different but in each case fairly constant work for my left hand each of which take a little getting used to.

I have been looking at pictures of flute players particularly ones who look ‘comfortable’ as James does in his avatar. But trying out what I see makes me think that I need to know how those flutes are balanced to get most information. I can understand how you may not think about it. But does it make sense that I think it relevant to an observer trying things out?

Oh and by the way folks, it was reminders by James and others here that the left thumb can dangle that has been a big help in preventing the death grip (especially when trying to squeeze out those second octave notes).

18

I’ve several flutes, all different.

My lightest flute is a maple traverso (“Baroque flute”). It weighs almost nothing. The only issue with this flute is that it is so light that it feels like it may fly out of your hands. Like you could breath some helium, play the flute, and watch the flute float to the ceiling. :laughing:

My Hamilton 6-key is also a very light flute, weighing (subjectively) a bit less than the keyless Seery. (Note, all my weights are subjective, I’ve not actually weighed any of these flutes).

The heaviest is without a doubt the M&E 6-key, but although it’s a bit heavy, I’ve never found it very hard to handle. My good friend and student Alec has that flute right now, and just plays the hell out of it. :slight_smile:

My old German 8-key has a lined head. Overall, it’s a moderately heavy flute, not quite as heavy as the M&E, but it is very off-balance towards the head. I find that when I hold this flute I tilt it down towards the flute more than the others but I still use the same three-points-of-contact approach. Picking up this flute is a little awkward because the head is so heavy, but once it’s in playing position holding it there is not an issue.

My Boehm-system silver flute is moderately heavy but very well balanced. I’ve played this flute for so long it feels like a natural extension of my body. I am so used to the peculiarities of this one particular Boehm-system flute that when I try someone else’s flute, it feels very strange to me, though if the flute is in good repair I will be able to play it.

The only change necessary for the silver flute is that the right thumb rests a bit higher on the side of the flute than on the wooden flute, right under the keywork. This doesn’t have anything to do with the weight of the flute, though, it’s a function of getting my right hand pinky in a position to control the touches for the E-flat, C-sharp, C, and B keys.

–James

19

I wonder what the consensus is on ‘well balanced’ is. Balance point roughly near the left hand ?

I suspect that two arms from the elbows down are a much, much heavier than a flute. Keep meaning to do some archimedes type stuff when I have a bucket of water handy.

20

With the left hand in playing position, I expect a flute to be pretty close to balanced, possibly slightly heavy towards the head.

My Hamilton 6-key is exactly in balance by this measure, my old German 8-key as noted before is heavy towards the head, my traverso is very slightly heavy towards the foot, and my Gemeinhardt Boehm-system flute (with B foot) is, predictably, pretty heavy towards the foot.

I don’t have any difficulty holding any of these flutes with the previously described approach.

–James