Just a bit of nostalgia for those who can remember when it was.
There Zoob! Someone sneezed during a quiet part of Glass’s recital on silence and by golly it changed the whole score and atmosphere.
As the appointed music librarian now for our system, I get comments almost daily from all types of people from all walks of life, and all state why do you have "-THAT (put name of music genre you hate here _____ )music and wasting taxpayers money on that crap !
I have to purchase music for 300,000 people, in almost every music genre you can think of and for me that is heaven. I have been told to broaden the scope of the collection to include as many types as I can get.
The city I live in in Canada has 185 languages spoken on a daily basis, I can’t buy for everyone but I must attempt to show them (as they are taxpayers also) that I am aware of what is out there. And it so much fun to try and taste everything!
I get snobs (sorry can’t call them that) all the time and they don’t like my answer.
As for my tastes they’re all over the board and really want to develop a very broad and eclectic collection.
MarkB
Wombat wrote:
Peter Laban wrote:
It’s not a uniform world …Just a bit of nostalgia for those who can remember when it was.
Oh, yeah, I forgot. I like Tommy Makem and the Clancys, too.
Judy wrote:
I might as well confess to another “no-no” – I read sheet music to learn the songs I play. Sorry, I know I’m bad … but I’m a newbie, okay? mea culpa
~Judy
from the land of no sessions … and backsliding to ‘lurk’ mode soon
Ditto! Mea maxima culpa. …Judy, you can’t leave now- -you just got here. Besides, I enjoy your posts.
Will O’Ban
Oh man, it was the Irish Rovers that got me into this whole whistle playing business! I used to watch their show on CBC every Wednesday night when I was a teenager. You know they’re still recording, right? Minus Will Millar (who’s doing solo stuff) and Jimmy Ferguson (who passed away tragically), but still making great music!
Redwolf
Redwolf wrote:
You know they’re still recording, right? Minus Will Millar (who’s doing solo stuff) and Jimmy Ferguson (who passed away tragically), but still making great music!
Right!! I have several of their older cd’s and the whistle playing on some of their tunes makes me wish I could play like that. In fact, I attended one of their concerts just a few weeks ago. The theatre was sold out. They mostly played newer songs which were great, but the 2 - 3 older songs that they performed didn’t sound the same (they’re a lot older now and, like you said, have a couple of newer players). They did a couple of sets (reels & jigs) during the concert that really rocked. Afterwards, they sat in the lobby signing autographs and chatting with the audience. The whistle player (I can’t recall his name right now) told me that he played a “Tony O’Brien” whistle in a solo that he performed. It was a black, wooden, tunable whistle with a marvelous low tone. He bought it in some shop in Belfast. Anyway, searching the web for “Tony O’Brien whistles” produces zip. Oh well. 
It’s good hearing from other forum members who enjoy the Irish Rovers.
Will O’Ban
P.S.: Even my 11 year old son is hooked on the Rovers’ music, and walks around the house singing their material.
The whistle player (I can’t recall his name right now) told me that he played a “Tony O’Brien” whistle in a solo that he performed. It was a black, wooden, tunable whistle with a marvelous low tone. He bought it in some shop in Belfast. Anyway, searching the web for “Tony O’Brien whistles” produces zip. Oh well.
I was just wondering if anyone is familiar with Tony O’Brien whistles? Any help with this is appreciated.
Will O’Ban
Just a couple of notes:
I think anyone can be a snob about their own music. I’m originally a classical player, have crossed over into Irish music about a year ago…I still play classical though. And yes, I’ve met snobs in both fields. I’ve met people in classical music who looked down their noses at the Irish music I was taking up…“Oh that’s just easy repetitive noodling stuff…ANYONE can do it.” ha! I’ve met Irish musicians who looked down on me for being “stuck to the dots,” as if somehow I couldn’t play the music because I needed the notes to remind me of the FORM of the tune, the basic gist of it, which note follows which, which is the A and B or C section. I don’t play what’s on the page…and if I didn’t read from the music at all, people would think I’d been playing a lot longer than a year. But I remember the music best if I can see the basic outline of the tune. I’m weaning my way off of it…but it’ll take time. It’s hard to let your body take over when you’re a visual learner. 
What irks me the most about these snobs in either style of music is how they think the other is easy to do…classical musicians just read what’s on the page, right? ANYONE who can play an instrument can do THAT. Well, it’s much more than that…you interpret every nuance…each performance SHOULD be unique. Irish musiciains just play the same tune over and over again, right? ANYONE can play the same repetitive tune ad nauseum. Again, obviously much more to it than that…a style, the lilt, the ornaments, the fact that each time through should NOT be the same.
And btw…I do listen to opera…and string quartets…but floating around in my CD player more often than not right now are various trad Irish groups. I don’t consider myself a snob in either field. I want to pursue each to the best of my abilities and be as true to the styles (classical on clarinet, Irish on whistle, and also Renaissance on various recorders and singing) involved as possible.
~Crysania
I’ve never gotten the impression from anyone, on this board at least, that they think playing classical music is “easy” just because most/many times it’s played from sheet music. …
I think the “soul” is the thing.
An example: I’ve been to performances of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir. Now they’re an absolutely amazing group and you can’t really grasp how incredible they are unless you’ve heard them live - they can sing hymns, classical pieces, and patriotic music that will make your heart race, tears spring to your eyes, and give you cold chills. But I cringe when they sing pieces that to me aren’t suited to a large choir - say, songs from Porgy and Bess, etc. It isn’t that they can’t sing them, in perfect pitch and harmony, but the piece completely lacks the soul of the piece. They’re singing the notes beautifully, but can’t express the emotion that goes with the particular song - not in a group that size. It comes across, to me at least, as mechanical.
I don’t think that makes me a snob about it - it just means I wish they wouldn’t perform those particular types of songs because it makes them look a little silly and doesn’t do anything for the song.
I don’t think it lacks the emotion, personally…just the style and essence of the piece. But I do have problems with certain groups performing various types of pieces. For instance, gospel…being performed by an all white choir…often lacks the style and essence of what gospel IS. I think people should stay away from styles that really aren’t suited to the type of ensemble they’re in. I’ve seen pop/rock people try opera songs…I’ve seen opera singers try jazz. It usually ends up a disaster unless they get the style and can change their style to suit it.
The same, I’d imagine, would go for say an Irish fiddle player, who doesn’t get classical style…and decides to play Paganinni or something of his ilk. The essence, the style, would not be there.
I have gotten some people in the Irish world who look down on my classical training…“you just read notes…you just play exactly what’s on the page.” Which shows how little those people know of interpretation. Nuances that are often quite different from Irish music…alterations in tempo, in dynamics…the notes themselves and the rhythms stay the same in (most) classical music…quite the opposite of Irish really…where the tempo (in dance tunes…not talking about airs here) stays set, the dynamics often don’t fluctuate much, and there’s no rubato…but the tune itself becomes altered.
This, of course, is SOME people…others are fine with it. Because I’ve played clarinet for 20 years, the technique on whistle was easy for me…which meant jumping into ornaments faster, and generally learning the style faster than if I had to learn fingerings and get my basic playing up to speed. When people this past summer would ask how long I’d been playing I would tell them about 6 months or so…and then play along with a tune…and they’d be surprised “only 6 months? sounds like you’ve been playing a lot longer than that!” Why? Because I had a heck of a lot of classical training under my belt, so technique isn’t hard.
I think it all really comes down to acceptance…understanding that each style of music is unique and beautiful in its own way…and if you love the music and want to play it, then learn the style properly and don’t think your way because of your XYZ training is better than the style itself.
~Crysania
Have you tried John Dowland’s “Awake, Sweet Love” on the whistle? Very easy, jam-packed with harmonies, and sounds great! 
Nope I haven’t! But I’ll check it out sometime… 
Thanks for the suggestion!
~Crysania
I don’t think Classical musicians are any more likely to be snobs than some eejit fresh from Ballyboghole CCE branch would be, it is a personality thing.
Great examples of irtrad snobs can be found posting at thesession.org, while you read it - you might want to remind yourself that among them there is not one who could turn a tune.
I’d agree, with the caveat that some of my favorite songs are covers that are utterly different from the original in style, or artistic intention, or even genre.
Take Hendrix for example. “All Along the Watchtower” is in fact a Bob Dylan song. The cover song became more famous than the original, and is probably the most successful cover song of all time.
On the subject, we sometimes see non-IrTrad music imported into IrTrad. There is a Reel version of Pachelbel’s canon, for example.
Caj
Any idea who did it? I’d be interested in hearing that! There is a lot of crossover between rock and classical, that much I know…Pachelbel’s Canon has made it’s way into rock in many songs…including one by the Beatles and a song called “Graduation Song” by Vitamin C (came out some years ago). I think it’s kind of neat when someone uses a classical peice and does something unique with it.
I see the problems coming in when someone wants to do justice to the ORIGINAL tune…or believes they’re playing it in the style it was first intended to be in. For instance, the multiple symphony concerts around St. Patrick’s day with their “celtic” themes. I had a very lovely (sarcasm there) version of the Butterfly not too long ago…an octave higher than it normally was played, complete with vibrato and very straight rhyhtms. Lilt? What lilt? It was a wretched version and a concert I wished I could have avoided (despite loving the symphony…I went to it because my parents got us tickets…“oh you’re playing Irish music! we should go see the symphony’s celtic celebration concert!”…I didn’t have the heart to say no way in hell…lol!). Remakes I’m ok with unless it’s a poor one. If they’re TRYING to do something new with an older thing and acknowledge that, it’s cool.
~Crysania
Pachelbel’s Frolic. Or Frolics. I know a number of people who like that tune, but it leaves me underwhelmed; then again, I’ve been so Canoned out that maybe that’s why.
Absolutely right about covers. You can never tell where great music is going to come from. There are ska versions of TV themes and reggae versions of songs from just about every style including soul and country. There’s even a killer version of, of all things, Neil Diamond’s Red, Red Wine by Tony Tribe which was later covered by UB40. None of these versions come even close to capturing the essence of the original, something for which I am often very grateful. Even when the original is good, who needs a sound-alike?
I think Eileen Ivers does a pretty decent version of it. Of course, I like the Electric Light Orchestra, too!
The Frolics occurs on more than one compilation of Green Linnet I think. It’s … cute..
I played it for years at weddings, the “real” one and I have similar sentiments about not wanting to hear it jazzed up. I happen to think its a very great piece of music exactly because it has survived.I am one of the few people who can actually play something else by Pachelbel (he wrote a lute suite) but it makes the point that his one work carried his name forward…well…sorta…to most he’s Tacobell…
The absolute worst notable version was that John Popper guy playin’ it on a Blues Traveler rekerd. A real botch-job even though Popper is a great instrumentalist. I got problems with his taste on that one.
Omigawd, I just became a SNOBE!
Then, ya need to take that up with ol’ B.T. the Smokin’ Cat!
