Every group of people, even a virtual one as we have here, has a “culture.” I have a question about tinwhistle culture.
How would you describe the attitude of tinwhistle players towards recorders and recorder players:
Open contempt? Slight annoyance? Bitter envy? Scorn? Mild bemusement?
The only reason I ask, is that there is a tinwhistle site, where if you click on a link, a video game opens up, where you are encouraged to destroy recorders. This suggests to me that there is an anti-recorder undertow to this culture that I need to appreciate.
Most people refer the them as R#$%#$@r players. I think that even Bodhran players are more tolerated.
That said, I know there are many openly bi-fipple players here on this forum, some that even MAKE and REPAIR them!!! I am certain there are even more that have not come out of the closet yet.
Why do you ask? Do you have an admission to make that we should know about?
I think the dislike of tin whistle players for recorders and their wielders stems from the fact that so many people are turned off music, sometimes for life, by the medium of the recorder as abused in School.
In Ireland every child (I think - correct me if I’m mistaken guys) gets at least some musical instruction on the tin whistle, and somehow it does not leave them with a life long aversion to that instrument.
Those of us who found our way back to music in later life, despite these early and traumatic recorder-related events, are prone to flinch and develop facial ticks when our ears are assaulted with recorder-like sounds.
i have never played the recorder, so actually i should shut up, but alas, i won’t.
Many whistle players are not too fond of the recorder because they had to learn to play them as a child, it was a lot of work, they really didn’t wanna do it, but, their parents wanted them to..
Recorders are not a laid-back instrument, as are whistles, recorders are steril and for concert halls and for classical music, whistles are for scrubby pubs, music of the people, you don’t have to and shouldn’t play by notes, there is more room for individuality.
Recorders are expensive, whistles are cheap (even the expensive ones, relativly speaking)
Recorders don’t look that cool either. No, honestly, that’s totally objectiv.
what else..
i don’t know.
a whistle is easier to learn than a recorder.
whistle music is cooler than recorder music
but hey, I’m just blabbering away, as i said, i’ve never played them things..
My sense is that much of the time the displays of “open contempt” are actually somewhat tongue-in-cheek.
I’m willing to bet that many of us started out at an early age on plastic recorders (or rcrd*rs, as many style it), which are simple execrable, and are usually played by barely developed elementary school musicians.
There are also lots of us who are willing to acknowledge some masters of recorder technique (I’ve cited Michala Petri often on these pages).
But it may be that some of us feel we’ve discovered a rather elite cultural art form and it’s fun to poke fun at what we think doesn’t measure up.
It also gives us a reason to start arguments with people who want thumb-holes and keys on whistles to expand the melodic possibilities. This seems to me like the argument of poetry versus prose–part of the fun of poetry (and whistles) is working within the defined limitations.
To me, a recorder is just another end-blown fipple flute. Cousins, even distant ones, are welcome at my table.
YOU SAID IT!
When I was 11 ,I was ABUSED at school with being FORCED to learn the R"%&!)@~r.
I hope that teacher is rotting in hell.
Footnote,on a more calm note,I started playing the guitar at 5 years old ,by the time I had reached 11 I was quite good and could play tunes by Big Bill Broonzy,Blind Willy McTell and Lightning Hopkins etc(my uncle being a Blues Buff)
This was not tollerated as music at the starlag that I attended,the guitar was taken from me and a R"£&%@<r placed in my hand,'nuff said.
Not only that,but occasionally some anal woman turns up at the local sess and clears the room.
What we need is a R"£%&@>r free zone,like everywhere on the planet.
I’m having a hard time getting my 11 year old son to take up the whistle. He was doing so well for a while on the whistle playing, “What do you do with a drunken sailor”. Now, he claims that it confuses him when he picks up the recorder to play for his teacher at school.
Personally, I was never required to play the recorder.
I agree that most of the recorder digs on C&F are meant in good fun.
however…
I went to a Catholic elementary school where there were no music classes so I was not traumatized by being required to play recorders but somewhere along the way, I think in high school, I got the impression that recorder players were a bit…well…poofy. Probably because I never heard anyone play a Marvin Gaye tune on a recorder. I can’t imagine Christy Moore playing a recorder. I really have nothing against recorders. Some of my best friends play reco… Well, no, they don’t. OK, I’m done.
Mike
Go to www.thewhistleshop.com, and there is a link to a video game called “recorder blaster.”
IDAwHOa wrote:
Why do you ask? Do you have an admission to make that we should know about?<
Yes..sniff…there is a recorder quintet that plays at our church, and…sob…I think they’re OK. Am I banished??
Martin wrote:
I think the dislike of tin whistle players for recorders and their wielders stems from the fact that so many people are turned off music, sometimes for life, by the medium of the recorder as abused in School.<
I was forced to play the trombone for a year in 7th grade, so I can well identify. I can only shudder to think of everyone in my class (I went to a very small rural school), all lined up, forced to play the recorder together. There were so many wise-asses in my class, that I am sure it would have been a miserable time.
Amar wrote:
recorders are steril and for concert halls and for classical music, whistles are for scrubby pubs, music of the people<
Yes, when the recorders at church play an old work, it really does sound nice, but very proper. However, I have also been fairly well plowed in a scrubby pub in Wexford, Ireland, while very scrubby local people played their scrubby folk instruments, and it was one of the high points of my life. I didn’t want to leave.
No, you are not banished. Confession cleanses the soul.
I also have an admission. Recorder was the entry instrument for us to whislte. We went to a Red Priest concert. The recorder player (his name escapes me) is a phenom and made it look so easy and the style was not dodgey at all so we thought to give it a try.
It quickly became apparant that we would not only be displeased with the sound and volume of the recorder, but the fact that an ENTRY LEVEL wooden instrument cost more than $500. That is more than my top of the line Bleazey Low D. Even more than a Copeland Brass Low D. That put a serious halt to our recorder careers.
Played recorder since elementary school - I was lucky that our school used “song flutes” rather than recorders, so I never developed a hate for 'em. But despite the appeal of being able to play in any key, and a little experience playing with a consort, I never did more than dabble. I’d pick up the recorder every couple of weeks, play a few tunes (mostly from books), then put it back down again. I still play recorder about that much, come to think of it.
Since I started playing whistle a couple of years back, I’ve been much more involved with music - even on my worst days, with no time to “practice”, I usually get half an hour or so in going over old favorites. I listen to music a lot more, and pay much closer attention as well. And unlike my recorder experience, I look forward to practice time instead of viewing it as a chore.
Am I a good player? If you’d asked me a year back I would have said “intermediate level”. Today, I’d probably say “beginner, or low intermediate” But I’m a better player now, I think - it’s just that despite the apparent simplicity of the instrument and the music, there’s always more to learn.
If recorder does that for you, more power to you! As I said, I still play it (mostly for early, classical, or pop music in odd keys) - and despite the lack of practice on recorder, a lot of the whistle skills transfer over. But because I enjoy it more, I spend more time on whistle - simple as that.
I’m a complete weirdo-I like both whistle and Recorder!
IDAwHOa-Red Priests’ Recorder player is Piers Adams-and for those of you who haven’t heard him-take your fingers out of your ears and LISTEN!-This guy is a VIRTUOSO and he is as FUN a player as anyone you’ll ever hear in any walk of music!
Red Priest are a musical phenomenon-I can’t decide if I’d class them as a ‘Baroque Pomp Rock band’,a musical ‘joke’ or totally amazing!
On a more down to Earth level-I DO enjoy playing BOTH instruments-and why not?
I’m 46 years old,and wise enough (doesn’t take much!) to realise that I’ll never be the next Micho Russell or Willie Clancy,or Piers Adams or Dan Guerin(that’s TWO Recorder players name checked in a single posting-so sue me!! )-but I can be the first kevin m.!
I play totally for my own amusement,and some frustration-but on the whole I enjoy it,so I carry on.
Oh by the way,I wasn’t indoctrinated in primary school-I bought my first Recorder AFTER my first Whistle!
So my message is-enjoy your music,whatever it is-I would hazard a guess that 98% of board members play purely for pleasure,rather than economic necessity,so live and let live.
I am certain there are even more that have not come out of the closet yet.
)-but I can be the first kevin m.!