I’m about to order an 8 keyed Ormiston flute and cannot decide which shape I want for the embouchure hole (George told me he’d make any shape I want…). I come from the metal flute and have already found out that the round hole is not what I want - the decision will probably be either the classical oval or the ‘boxed oval’ or ‘rounded rectangle’.
On the one hand I want a flute that’s easy to play, on the other hand I don’t want it to sound like a concert flute - I’ve already got one…
Could anyone give me some advice on this?
Thanks a lot!
The rounded rectangle will be easier to get a sound out of, and louder. The classic oval is a bit more complex, requires a different embouchure hole than on the Boehm flute, and will sound more “Irish.”
Jessie, what exactly do you mean when you say ‘complex’? Do you think it would be very difficult to adapt to the oval? So far I’ve only played my concert flute with the boxed oval. When I tried wooden flutes with round embouchures, I found it extremely difficult to focus the air stream, and I’m a bit afraid of ordering a flute that sounds Irish - but that I cannot play. Unfortunately I haven’t had a chance to try either of the two so far.
You can probably make a round hole into an ellipse, and an ellipse into a box.
The other way around is more difficult.
In my limited experience, a rectangular hole is more difficult to bend the note
than an ellipse hole or a round hole (this may have been differences in the
fifes).
I think that a rectangular hole can be played louder if everything else stays
the same.
“I.D.10-t” wrote:
Two things to keep in mind,
You can probably make a round hole into an ellipse, and an ellipse into a box. The other way around is more difficult.
The problem with this logic, is that if you change the shape from round to ellipse or square, you increase the area of the embourture and make it larger, which will change the tuning of the flute.
Jon
Yes, that’s right…the more complex tone is harder to get a sound on. Since you are used the the Boehm embouchure, you might do well to get the rounded rectangle.
I’ve come to Irish flute playing from a Boehm flute background.
If you get an embouchure cut that is similar to a Boehm flute’s embouchure cut it will make switching between the flutes somewhat easier, but the sound will be more open and less, I don’t know, wooden sounding.
Or, you could go with a more oval shape (which isn’t really that hard to play–it just requires a different embouchure than the Boehm flute), which will help to give the classic wood flute sound. (Oval is easier to play than round, I think.)
Micah
if you are serious abt playing the boehm flute probably a modern type
of embouchoure would suit you better (switching from a flute to another would be easier).
the classic oval blow hole needs a slighty different embouchoure, but is
the better choice in my opinion if you are seriously interested in learning irish traditional music.
but I don’t know G.Ormiston flutes!
were do you live? there is also a very good flute maker in Basel,Tom Aebi.
[/quote]The problem with this logic, is that if you change the shape from round to ellipse or square, you increase the area of the embourture and make it larger, which will change the tuning of the flute.
Jon[quote]
Thank you
Czad
I’m somewhat beginner here, but I came from Irish wooden flute and started with Boehm a while ago and my experience is that if you are a fluter and you play one flute on a high level and you decide to go try the other, you have to ask yourself what you want to gain here. Why do you want to play the simple system wood? Probably because you want the more “Irish” sound. Go with the one that you feel have the potential to sound like you want it to sound. You will probably want a round or oval, and what you do is you learn to play it. My wood flute and my boehm sertainly takes different embouchures but I can play them both.
if you want to sound good, get a round/oval hole. If it’s “easy” you’re after, then get the boxed off oval. But if you are serious about playing the flute irish style, then you will get a flute with a round hole and re-learn your embouchoure. Otherwise you will just have an interesting looking keyless Boehm flute.
if i were you, i’d get something different (a little tighter and ovalish), paradoxically, not only will it be more authentic for the irish sound but it will improve your embouchure for the metal flute too! plus you will appreciate differences (as very well there should be) and enjoy each flute more as result. it’s always better to have flexibility (ability to adapt). it develops more control in the muscles involved in forming the embouchure for whichever embouchure hole you encounter in your travels. fear not the differences. it’s a bonus.
I’d also recommend an oval embouchure hole. The rectangular holes play very easily, but can take away some of your ability to mold and shape the note as you see fit. I prefer having a headjoint that lets me make the sound, rather than one that demands that I play a certain way.
Thanks a lot for all those comments - this really helps me to make up my mind.
As I want the wooden flute for Irish music (by the way: ‘Mel Bay’s complete Irish flute book’ has some interesting tips for people playing Irish music on a Boehm flute, that’s what I’ve done so far), I’ll probably go for the oval hole, evenif that means I’ll have to play it with a different embouchure.
All of you say that the embouchure is different when you’ve got the oval instead of the boxed oval - could you describe how I’d have to change mine (lip position, etc.) in order to adapt to the oval?
That’s what seems to work for me, too. I also recommend lots of listening to great players. Choose the sound you want, and imitate it. For many people, hearing the sound you want in your head can help your embouchure to make automatic adjustments.
Let me throw in my two cents worth on embouchure shape, playability, and tone production. I have a silver Yamaha flute with a rounded rectangle embouchure with a width of 12mm. My PVC low D Irish flute has a round embouchure with a width of 10mm. I find that I am able to go between the two flutes without any difficulties of adjusting between the different embouchures. The smaller round embouchure on the PVC Irish flute does take a more controlled embouchure, but I believe that is a good thing.
Reviewing my woodwind catalogue for classical flutes, I notice that Gemeinhardt offers six different headjoints. Yamaha also offers six headjoints. Here is the description of the Gemeinhardt H1 headjoint: “The result of research focusing on the degree angles of the front and back walls of the embouchure hole. Well suited for the beginner, but the rich dynamic and tonal palette will please any professional.” And here is the description of theYamaha EC headjoint: “High, narrow chimney walls. Rich tone with comfortable resistance. Direct straightforward sound.”
Both of the above descriptions of headjoint design mention how the inside of the embouchure has been cut, which is just as important as the outside shape of the embouchure hole (round, boxed-oval, rounded rectangle, etc.). It is hard to characterize the sound and playability of an embouchure based just on its outside shape. What I think you need, before you order that new flute, is to have the maker of the flute describe how each of his embouchure options are cut and how they vary in terms of playability and tone production, just as the manufacturers of silver flutes have done in the above examples.
In regard to making an alteration on any existing embouchure, enlarging the shape of the embouchure hole will change the tuning of the flute, as has been mentioned before. However, with a flute with a tuning slide, this shouldn’t be a problem, because you would be able adjust the flute back into tune.
Oh, wonderful advice from an expert. You’re right of course, that there’s so much more involved than the outside appearance of the embouchure hole. Thanks!