I’m curious about the effect of embouchure holes on flutes. My first flute is a Copley Delrin with the squared ellipse embouchure hole. After a few weeks of struggling, I picked it up pretty quickly. I’m not saying it sounds great, but it’s at least consistent.
I got a bamboo flute for a christmas present (Billy Miller) and the embouchure hole is huge in comparison. It’s more oval. Gigantic.
What’s weird is if I pick it up first I can play it but it takes a few minutes and I have a hard time with the upper 2nd octave. But if I play my Copley for a while and then try to switch to the bamboo, I can’t even get a note out of it. I’m a bit lost.
So I’d like to learn more about the two different embouchure hole styles. I know that people like the oval hole on the wooden Irish flutes and I’m not sure why the squared ellipse is standard on the Copley Delrin model. I asked Mr. Copley about this and he recommended the squared ellipse for a beginner. which must be easier and allows me to get going quicker.
From what I read, experienced flute players like the oval because they have more control of the sound and can make a more “dirty” sound with it. How do they do this?
Should I stick to one or is it ok to play both? I really didn’t anticipate such a huge difference so I’m not sure if this is a good thing or not. I really like the simplicity and feel of the bamboo and it sounds different. But after struggling with it for a while if I pick up the Copley I’m blown away by how much easier it is.
It is my experience that a squared embouchure allows easier access to the higher octaves. Also seems to allow for more volume or perhaps more variation in volume. I am no expert. I seem to recall a post by Terry McGee that his personal preference is squared - tradition aside, he regarded it as an improved development.
More than just embouchures, you are not really comparing apples with apples. Dave’s flutes are precisely designed and made to play as an irish flute should. Every detail is chosen for a specfic reason and purpose. A bamboo flute is a marriage between Mother Nature’s design and the skill of a maker to make it musical.
The most important point, in my opinion, is that you will eventually be able to unconciously switch between both easily. Relax and enjoy them both!
My impression from playing both in Irish flutes is that the squared ellipse is easier, louder and brighter.
I much prefer the sound of the oval, and, with enough practice, one can make it as loud.
I reckon its going to take longer to get up and running.
The bigger difference between the bamboo flute and the polymer flute is probably chimney depth. Bamboo tends to be thinner-walled than a wooden or polymer flute. I’ve owned a few Olwell bamboo flutes, and while one can coax a pretty damn good tone from them, it’s not as easy as an Olwell wooden flute, even though the embouchure shape is pretty similar.
And I would suggest sticking with one flute until you’re 100% comfortable with it.
I don’t know if it’s relevant - is your bamboo flute in the same key as the Copley Delrin flute?
A lower key flute will have a larger embouchure design. The largest bamboo embouchures I’ve seen are about 18mm across for a low F key flute.
Carlos Palanca, pioneered the oval embouchure in the baroque traverso era: back them, embouchure holes were mostly circular (that is: tight sweetspot; easy to lip, subtle and complex, rather soft by Irish playing standards). His oval design enabled the flute to project itself much louder. By the time the Boehm student flutes came around, the majority have rectangular embouchures (standard) around 12-16mm across rather than square embouchures. They are easy or ‘free blowing’, and require much less precision than an oval, or a circular embouchure.
What’s weird is if I pick it up first I can play it but it takes a few minutes and I have a hard time with the upper 2nd octave. But if I play my Copley for a while and then try to switch to the bamboo, I can’t even get a note out of it. I’m a bit lost.
The Trevor Wye books on articulation and intonation (or Marcel Moyse ‘On Intonation’) comment about this phenomenon in learning Boehm flute. The major shift between the bamboo and Copley, tends to be the angle of attack for breathing in. Most romantic style flutes require deep almost foot projection (towards an imaginary pot of plants on the ground) of the breath. The French blowing style, which rotates the embouchure away from the lips, and carries a lightness, can be used for the bamboo flute too. I like the bamboo flute for its base octave. It tends to have a smaller dynamic range, and can be quite unpleasant in the third octave.
So I’d like to learn more about the two different embouchure hole styles. I know that people like the oval hole on the wooden Irish flutes and I’m not sure why the squared ellipse is standard on the Copley Delrin model. I asked Mr. Copley about this and he recommended the squared ellipse for a beginner. which must be easier and allows me to get going quicker.
I’ve given up with all my rectangular embouchure flutes. I like the baroque embouchure most although at times, the oval embouchure of the Boosey & Pratten keyed flute makes a very pleasant bark. The worse problem I’ve found with the oval large embouchures…is air leak due to unfamiliarity with the embouchure style. I can hear a sizzling air leak during play - which can be corrected, but then find that it comes back on an octave leap. When I’ve corrected the sizzling for the octave notes, it happens elsewhere in the base octave, so it feels like I’m not on top of it.
From what I read, experienced flute players like the oval because they have more control of the sound and can make a more “dirty” sound with it. How do they do this?
The squared off one jumps easily into the 2nd octave. A little
too easily I think and has a wide, bright sound, which also isn’t good
for Irish music - if you’re trying to get a normal kind of Trad
Irish sound. If that’s not your thing, than probably it’s a good choice.
Thanks for the info on the differences in the embouchure shapes. I hadn’t though of the chimney depth and that’s important too.
I’m not married to the “trad sound”.. I do like it but I also enjoy other sounds especially the bansuri bass flutes. It’s been fun playing around with the bamboo flute and experimenting a bit. Maybe some day I’ll try a Low B or Bb bansuri.
I wonder if it’s possible to get a second headjoint for my Copley delrin so that I can have both embouchure shapes?
