I have a question regarding flute models and embouchure.
I bought a keyless Rudall style flute ( small bore, medium holes.)made by Tony Millyard back in October. I was able to get a very good sound out of it after a few days. I noticed it likes a very fine but fast airstream.
I wanted a keyed flute so I bought a Copley 6 key( Prattenish). I struggled with it for months until I found that it likes a very light, more open airstream, that’s when I get a very good sound out of it. I have good days and bad days with it, but either way, it takes me a good 30 minutes before I can get it to sing.
Now I have not touched the Millyard since I got the Copley, which is about 5 months. I was struggling to get a good sound out of the Copley today so I picked up the Millyard. I was able to get great sound right off the bat, and I have to say I think the style of blowing fits me better.
My question is, is this a typical difference between a Pratten(large bore) and a Rudall( smaller bore) flute? Or do different makers make different cuts on the blow hole and that’s what the difference is? I understand that the lines between Rudall and Pratten are very blurred.
I am thinking about selling both flutes and buying a John Gallagher 6 key, small or medium hole Rudall, I would hate to wait all that time and spend all that money just to find the flute does not suit me. I hope my question is clear, or is even answerable.
Might be worth a drive to Elkins, WV to try one of John’s flutes in person. He can also tweak one for your specific needs. As far as I am concerned, John is one of the best!
It is obviously always better to meet the maker or at least try a sample flute if at all possible. I have not played a Millyard flute but from what you describe it would best fit the playing style description for the Gallagher flute I have. It thrives on a focused airstream. It is a large holed Rudall and takes very little air to get a great tone. It is a Delrin model and I liked it so much I have a Boxwood one on order.
[quote]I was able to get a very good sound out of it after a few days. I noticed it likes a very fine but fast airstream.
I wanted a keyed flute so I bought a Copley 6 key( Prattenish). I struggled with it for months until I found that it likes a very light, more open airstream, that’s when I get a very good sound out of it. I have good days and bad days with it, but either way, it takes me a good 30 minutes before I can get it to sing.
Now I have not touched the Millyard since I got the Copley, which is about 5 months. I was struggling to get a good sound out of the Copley today so I picked up the Millyard. I was able to get great sound right off the bat, and I have to say I think the style of blowing fits me better.[quote]
I could be wrong on this, but I think just the opposite is happening. My guess is the embouchure on the Millyard flute is cut so it’s more free blowing, where as the Copley takes a much more focused and controlled air stream. The issue isn’t Rudall or Prattenish, but the difference of how the embouchures are cut, and how much control you have over the airstream.
I had been playing a flute with a large squared ellipse embouchure and had thought I had a focused embouchure, but when I moved to a ellipse embouchure found that I had anything but a focused one.
It takes time to develop a good embouchure. The Copley’s more challenging for you at this point because your embouchure needs more development. The Millyard is easier for you because of the work you’re doing with the Copley.
I’d wait to sell the two flutes until you’ve progressed further along with your embouchure, so you can truly judge the differences between what a Rudall type or Pratten type flute.
Copley make fine flutes, I have an Eb that I really enjoy, but it does take a focused embouchure.
Perhaps the best way to approach this is bring both of the flutes to John and show him what style embouchure suits you. I own several of John’s flutes and when comparing the Pratten to the Rudall the embouchure is very similar(then again he cut them based on my input). What I enjoy about the large hole Rudall is that you do not have to strain as much to get that reedy sound. Definitely drive down to see him, it’s worth taking a look at as many flutes as possible before you invest in ordering a new one.
I was playing a Pratten style flute for years. I loved the sound, but it was a challenge to fill it. I now have a large bore Ruddal style model from Tom Aebi, and its fantastic. Big sound, easy to fill and sustain . Pratten style suit certain players, but I could not progress with my playing. The new Aebi has allowed me to move forward, and renewed my interest in playing, and it has the big sound that I like.
Good observation Tjones. The Copley definitely helped my focus, but I have to say the flutes are very similar in terms of hole size and embouchure cut ( elliptical). The main difference I see is the bore. To me they play and sound very different.
Also, I have been playing the silver flute for 10 years or so ( not going back…) so I am not a total beginner.
As others have mentioned, I really need to get the flute in my hands to judge.
I have never played a Millyard, but own a D and E flat in blackwood and a D and C in delrin which Dave made for me. They are standard models–I did not ask for anything tweaks or modifications or anything. I like Dave’s flutes because I find them to have a full rich tone, are pretty comfortable, and play quite easily. I think you are right that they probably do not take to as focused an airstream as some others, but I myself find mine “plays in” as quickly as any flutes I’ve tried. They are not really “reedy.” That is just not the Copley sound, but they can be played pretty hard and loud. I like the sound, but can see where someone else may be looking for a sharper edge and I myself don’t play Copleys exclusively. Maybe a Gallagher would suit you better. But I’d have to say Copleys are darn good dependable players.
I had a Copley after I’d been playing a couple of years. I found that it broke into the upper octave way too easily. I parted with the Copley when I got a Hammy, and it did the same thing. When I was playing an Olwell Rudall, when I played a friend’s Olwell Pratten, the same thing happened. Given how similar Olwell’s embouchure cuts are from one flute to then next, I’d say the bore has a lot to do with it, It never happened with small-bore flutes.
Many years later, a Copley Delrin is one of my favorite flutes, and I don’t find it breaking into the upper octave.
The shape of the embouchure, as to weather it’s elliptical or squared ellipse embouchure, is not the only issue, but how the elliptical walls are cut. Board member mcdafydd has an excellent picture showing how he had Paddy Ward open up the wall of the embouchure to make his flute more free blowing. https://forums.chiffandfipple.com/t/fs-beautiful-paddy-ward-6-key-boxwood/89496/1
Many flutes can be made to play quite nice and we think we are playing them well, but in the hands of someone who has that focused embouchure the sound is totally different, reedy and full etc.
I put together a workshop with Kevin Crawford early this year and before he started, he play our flutes. We were quite amazed at the sound Kevin got out of each of our flutes. *
Developing a really focused embouchure is a work in progress. And learning how to maximize a flute’s potential can take time.
Ballygo might be right in that issue is filling the flute. “I was playing a Pratten style flute for years. I loved the sound, but it was a challenge to fill it.”
Many flute makers will cut the embouchure for the level of the player when custom building the flute for someone.
*By the way if you have chance to do a workshop with Kevin do it! He was Great!
I moved to Copley & Boegli, too, after 15 years of playing the Boehm flute, and it took me a couple of years to consistently get a sound I was happy with. (And it’s only gotten better since.) The two types of flute are very different, so give it time. (And blow much more downward than on the Boehm flute.) I’ll be celebrating 10 years with the Copley in a couple of weeks, and it’s been a great flute and has become my voice.
I’ll also add that what our untrained eye can see when it comes to the embouchure cut is just the tip of the iceberg. It’s quite a complex art, and there’s more to it that just the outer shape. (Lots of marketing going on here, but it gives a sense of some of the parameters that a headjoint cut takes into account: http://www.drelinger.com/)