As a reformed classical flutist, my idea of a good flute sound was that of Jean Pierre Rampal, James Galway (minus the vibrato) etc. I actually purchased a relatively inexpensive keyless polymer flute in D without ever actually hearing a well played Irish flute. I have spent some months working on various jigs and reels and can get around on it quite well.
Yesterday, for the first time, I bought a CD with tunes by a variety of fine Irish flute players such as Matt Molloy and Kevin Crawford. To say I was knocked on my ear by their sound is putting it mildly. Now, my object is to sound like these greats rather than to produce the “classical” sound. How do they get that, for lack of better words, hard, edgy tone? I seem to remember reading that they blow it almost to the point of it jumping the octave. Is this true?
I would certainly appreciate any tips you might have to offer.
it would help to know what flute you bought. Polymer can have a very good tone, but a conical polymer flute is more likely to have that tone than a cylindrical bore flute. Also, a better flute is more likely to have that typical “Irish flute” sound than a cheaper flute.
Very good question.
I was listening to Chris Norman,
and it didn’t sound like a flute.
It sounded more like an oboe.
A very good embouchure is part
of this plainly, and a good flute,
I reckon, but what else?
A lot of it is the style (Pratten, Rose/Rudall, etc.) and the material. Classical (metal) Boehm style flutes are machined metal, very smooth sounding. A handmade flute will be rougher inside the bore, which will producer a “harsher”, often deeper sound.
The finger holes contribute to how loud you can play the flute without jumping octaves, as does the shape and cut of the embouchure hole. Also, the density of the wood has a lot to do with how “dark” or “light” the flute will sound.
And, with the better players, they rotate the flute in and out to vary the tone, etc.
jpeepl’s site (uhm… www.flutesite.com ?) has some comparisons between different flutes.
This coming from a non-pro (well, I was a pro brass musician, but relatively new to flute). . .
What’s worked for me, and what I’ve gleaned from other players much better than I am:
I’ve rotated the headjoint in towards my embouchure, perhaps 15 or 20 degrees.
I blow pretty hard, especially on the lowest notes. For “hard D”, you do want to get that sound that’s almost a bend of the upper and lower octaves, right on the edge of the octave break.
I maintain a relatively tight embouchure, particularly on the upper lip. I’ve never been trained as a Boehm flute player, but I’ve played the metal flutes of friends, and noticed that it takes a much more relaxed embouchure than the Irish flute. Keep that upper lip pretty taut; it becomes second nature soon, and shouldn’t be uncomfortable after a little while. Learning this really helped me attain that “reedy” sound.
All the standard stuff re: wind instruments in general: big, deep breaths, support from the diaphragm, etc.
Glottal stops, as opposed to tonguing. This, as a trained brass player, I’m still working on. But using glottal stops where you’d instinctively use your tongue otherwise adds a distinct and gritty flavor to the tunes. Still difficult for me at speed in triplets, etc., but second nature now in general, and a big part of that Irish flute sound.
Go hear live music at sessions if you can, and participate when you’re able. It’s ahuge difference, actually playing amongst people who are better steeped in the tradition than you are. It is by far the single best thing you can do to improve your playing. Also, get as many recordings of good trad players – flute and otherwise – and listen,listen, listen. It’s a simple, but subtly complex, music, and extraoridinarally rich. You have to listen a lot before you really start getting it. You’ll drive your significant other,or pets, or neighbors, absolutely nuts. You may go nuts. You will go nuts
What kind of teacher would I be if I didn’t say, “Practice”!
Good luck. It’s quite a journey, but a really fun one. The folks here can be a great resource. Don’t neglect the ITM forum on this site; a wealth of stuff, there.
I think that the player’s embouchure, as well as the cut of the flute’s embouchure is the main deal tonewise. Its evidently a fairly controversial issue, many people have different takes on it.
Also, I think you should aim to achieve a very small, focussed aperture between your lips, so the air hits the embouchure hole at a very high speed, producing lots of extra-harmonics in your tone - the dry, reedy sound. I don’t think it matters if you use a tight-lipped or loose embouchure to do this because different people have different facial structures. Just as long as the end result is a very focussed embouchure. I think it would be best to experiment with all that, with some idea of what kind of timbre you want in your head. (there are different timbres archieved by different Irish flute players too)
As for Chris Norman, his tone does sound pretty classically based. (without the vibrato)
Dave,
Welcome. Funny you should ask. I just spent some time with two classically trained professional flautists recently who are trying their hand at Itrad on wooden flutes. I had asked them this question “why do some people make the transition (from classical to Itrad) and others don’t - all they end up doing is sounding like a classical flautist trying to play Itrad?”
After some discussion we seemed to all agree on one key point - it is critical to have an “open mind”. It’s not that Itrad is too different than classical but that some people won’t allow themselves to be teachable.
I think they can’t let go of an attitude that they know more than an Itrad player and feel they can do a better job of it on their own. Just give them some Itrad tips and they will go home and do it their way - the same old classical way. Unfortunately it’s tough going doing it that way.
I’m not knocking classically trained people. The same would be true if the roles were reversed. It’s not a question of ‘classical or Itrad’ but being ‘open minded or not’.
Obviously since you are asking, you are being open minded and you just increased the learning curve.
all the best,
r
"5) Glottal stops, as opposed to tonguing. This, as a trained brass player, I’m still working on. But using glottal stops where you’d instinctively use your tongue otherwise adds a distinct and gritty flavor to the tunes. Still difficult for me at speed in triplets, etc., but second nature now in general, and a big part of that Irish flute sound. "
What is Glottal Stops?
Is it starting/stopping with the diaphragm insteat of tounging?
Is it starting/stopping with the diaphragm insteat of tounging?
/Peter
I always have a chuckle when I see someone asking this question. I come originally from the West of Scotland, where the glottal stop is very much a feature of the dialect. Indeed, to describe a glottal stop, all you have to do is ask a Glaswegian to say “glottal stop” The “t’s” are removed and replaced by a closing of the throat, thus giving “glo’al”
Anyway, after giving this rambling lecture on Weegie dialect, in flute playing, the glottal stop is that same closing of the throat but used to articulate between notes. Others describe it as a slight cough or the same reflex as if you were clearing your throat. It can give a more forceful articulation than tonguing but I wouldn’t advocate one over the other but rather, mix the two to add a bit of variety.
See yous la’er (Another classic Weegie glo’al stop!)
I too made the switch some time ago. It’s all how you blow. Boehm flutes favor an open loose embouchure with an economy of breath. With a simple system flute you’d do well to rotate the headjoint in a bit, tighten your embouchure as if you’re playing a 4th octave C, widen the aperture between your lips and blow much more forcefully than you are used to doing. As mentioned, direct the air down into the hole rather than across it. You’re looking for an upper partial sound that rides right at the octave jump. Basically you can be much more athletic with your force of directed air. The wood (polymer) flute likes to be shoved, metal flutes prefer to be nudged. Have fun. Once you get the sound of a simple system flute in your ear it’s hard to go back. The Boehm sound is now much to sweet smooth and insipid for me to listen to.
Thanks very much for the replies to my query. They are all very helpful.
The flute I have is a polymer one made by John McCalmont. I picked it up on e-Bay for a very reasonable price. While perhaps not a Grinter, it nevertheless produces a very loud sound including a real honking low D. For the price (about 20 quid) it’s an extremely nice instrument. I actuallly prefer it’s sound to my rather pricey Yamaha silver flute.
Last evening, I was experimenting with a tighter embouchure as well as blowing harder (as recommened above) and I detected some improvement. However, for the moment Molloy doesn’t have to worry
so you have a Calmont flute? I’ve looked at those several times myself, and they look like one of the nicer cylindrical Irish style flutes out there. It’s nice to hear good comments about them.
One of the key issues you hit upon is that with time, and more practice, you’ll slowly grow into that Irish sound. However, your flute will influence your sound a bit. For example, how thick is the flute wall in the embouchure hole? A thinner wall will produce, in my experience at least, a purer sound with less of that Irish growl. There may be a way to get that growl on a thinner walled flute, but I never achieved it. On the other hand, a lot of that Irish sound is technique like the glottal stops talked about earlier, cuts, taps, rolls and simply phrasing which give that Irish feeling. So I guess what I’m saying is the flute can make a difference, but so often it’s the player that makes the biggest difference.
Have fun & keep us posted on your progress! You ought to see if there is a session in your area (check out www.thesession.org ) to find the nearest session to you. Nothing helps learning Irish music more than hearing it played live, and if you look forelorn enough the flute players will probably let you try theirs so you can see the difference the flute makes for you.
As far as sessions in Toronto go, there is an Irish pub about a 5 minute subway ride from my home where they hold sessions two nights per week. I plan on spending a lot of time there. It will be a while though before I’ll be brave enough to take my flute along.
An interesting angle to the replies to my query are the problems faced by classical flute players in switching to an Irish flute. I didn’t experience much of a problem producing the notes, a couple of minutes moving the instrument in and out and fiddling with my embouchure. However, as mentioned, getting a decent tone was a real problem. Nevertheless I soon found I enjoyed playing the keyless instrument more than the classical one. There seems to be a much more personal involvement to it without having to go through all those springs and levers.
I understand your comment that an Irish style flute feels much more personal than a Boehm. I played Boehm for a brief time many years ago, but I primarily played Sax. There really is something with an open holed flute - I love that vibration in your finger tips when you get those low notes honking! Also, I just like the simplicity of six holes in a wooden or polymer tube.
As for sessions, I didn’t mean to play along with them until you’re comfortable (check with the players and see if there is a local slow session - that’s the level I’m at. Slow sessions allow everyone to play through tunes over and over and at a slow rate which is what I need). What I meant was to see if during a break a fluter would let you try your hand on a fancier instrument off to the side - it’s the best way to see how your flute stacks up to other flutes and how the flute itself can have such a drastically different tone. I think that’s a difference between classical and Irish flutes - the later has a much wider variety of tone from flute to flute.
I too came from learning the classical way. I just realised this past week one of the reasons why my Irish flute playing doesn’t have that reedy sound. I usually have my blow hole turned out. Lined up with the keys. I’ve had a terrible time getting a sound when it was turned in. Then, on one of these posts I saw that my whole, lip to hole relationship is incorrect. This past weekend I discovered that raising the flute up a little and turning in the hole I get a much better sound. I’m anxious to try it more later today.
You may want to try using your diaphram. It does make a major difference. It does take a bit of getting used to I remember it took me ages.
Try blowing long notes . As you are about to run short of breath push your diaphram up and push the remaining air out in a controlled manner. When you have got the hang of this then repeat but in addition narrow your embouchere and turn the flute to blow more inwards. Irish flutes are particular about where your airsteam hits the leading edge threre is usually only one place you will need to find it. To get the best from your flute it needs to be driven.
I have played a couple of different blackwood flutes at this point, and I have to say that each had its own “one place” ~ It is good advice to rotate your headjoint in slightly, if that is where you find the “sweet spot” on your particular flute. My Copley’s blow hole is best when almost in line with the finger holes, however.
