Seery or M&E ?!? (Virtual Tug-O-War)

Irish Flute
1

Hi all,

considering to pick up the flute I find myself torn between the Seery and the M&E polymer flutes. Every 2nd or 3rd of you seem to own either. I have tried a Seery and liked it, but of course I had nothing to compare with. Except some silver classical keyed flute that I couldn’t get a sound out of…
But mostly, the M&E seems to get the positive mention.

Having read quite a few threads with scattered comments on both, I just thought I’d try and start a new one and see what happened.
I want this to be about just those two flutes, and we dont need to discuss other materials, intermix cheap instruments with expensive ones etc. Very nice, yes?

Remember, I have no chance to try both (or any) and compare them, except by ordering both and returning one; which might become a costly affair (I live in Norway, right next to St. Claus). I am set on getting a polymer flute, used or brand new.

What I would like is to just read your own opinions of either. I know this by nature wont be objective, but anyway I will probably be able to deduct some valuable info from it. The characteristics of either, for instance; are bound to pop out sooner or later.

I realize these two are by different makers, and modeled after different original designs: the Pratten and the Rudall:

  • From what I have read about these, the Pratten design seem to require a slightly different embouchure and tend to produce a dryer and harsher sound. But to what extent, and what else?

Comments on this and why this or the other is to be preferred for the individual; are welcome.

ANd PLEASE: don’t make this another discussion about the lack of credibility and authenticity of postings on the internet potentially coming from witless wannabes. I have read quite a few posts on Chiff&Fipple as well as other sites myself, and I’m quite aware of that phenomenon :wink:

So, once again; please feel free!

Cheers,

E. :party:

2

Ok, I’ve already said “neither” so now I will adress your questions specifically.

Both of them come with the holes not sanded enough. You can fix this with several grades of sandpaper.

The Seery is capable of power, but it takes some doing to get to it. Tom Doorley (sp?) did VERY well on his Seery before he got his Olwell. It looks just like a high end wooden flute, but delrin is HEAVY, and the Seery is thick-walled. Still, you can get used to this. A problem that occurs on a Seery flute sometimes is a long note (A or B, for example) will buzz. If will have its own very fast vibrato that is unavoidable if you are playing strongly. Some people have tried to remedy this by oiling the bore, but I don’t know if it worked. All of this said, the Seery can be a very good starter flute, and if you get to the point where you sound really good on it (totally possible), you will sound that much better on a higher end flute. It has sterling silver rings, a very nice touch.

The M&E is made of ABS plastic, which is lighter in weight than delrin, but not by much. It doesn’t look like a wooden flute. It looks like a plastic rod. The tone that comes out of it is easy to acheive, but very plain, as compared with the Seery and other flutes. You can get a uniform sound and learn fingering on it, but it doesn’t look beautiful and I have never enjoyed playing one. There is no sterling silver anywhere near it.

So, of the two, I recommend a Seery. I have owned and sold both M&Es and Seerys.

Here’s a short recording I did on an M&E Rudall:

http://www.jessiekislin.com/music/Flute_Samples/ME_RR.mp3

Here I played the same bit on a Seery big-holed flute:

http://www.jessiekislin.com/music/Flute_Samples/Seery.mp3

For comparison, here I played it on an Olwell blackwood Pratten:

http://www.jessiekislin.com/music/Flute_Samples/Olwell_Pratten.mp3

To illustrate my point that wood is usually better than plastic (though I know you don’t want to hear about that, here I played it on a Ralph Sweet apple D flute that I got for $100:

http://www.jessiekislin.com/music/Flute_Samples/Sweet.mp3

I did all of these recordings a year ago and I have improved quite a lot since then, but this is an honest comparison of different flutes played by the same person in the same sitting.

Good luck with your choice.

:slight_smile:

3

Having owned both at one point, I much preferred the Seery to the M&E (non-R&R style). I won’t bother with long explainations why, I’ll simply say that I thought the Seery was a superior flute - it played better, sounded better, and was more well made, all IMO, of course.

Loren

4

Eivind - first off, you’ll love the world of the trad. flute, and I don’t think you’d go wrong with either flute. I don’t own, and have never played an M&E, but I thought I’d share my comments on the Seery. BTW - I went through the same process (Seery vs. M&E) you are going through last spring.

I love my Seery. I love it’s look with the silver rings - it’s a dead ringer for a wooden flute (a blackwood flute playing friend at session didn’t realize it was polymer until I told him it was). Desi also offers quite a few different options - small hand models, split joint models (all 6 of my tone holes are one one section which is the normal Pratten style, but he also makes one with that midsection split), etc.

Yes, the Seery is primarily known for it’s dry, reedy sound, but I can play mine rather sweetly (I couldn’t at first, but it’s gentler side is coming out now that I’m getting better and now that I’ve had the flute for over 3 months) when I’m playing classical music.

Overall, I’m exceptionally happy with my Seery. However, like I said, I do not have an M&E and have not played one, so my comments are absolutely, 100% biased… :smiley:

Now for my polymer plug - I can drop it, play it in the tub without worry, take it camping, go scuba diving with it (just kidding there - I don’t scuba dive) and I never worry about it cracking. Overall, I play a lot more because I have a polymer flute. While I do try to sit down for 30-45 minutes of solid playing each day, I also pick up at least 30 minutes more in a quick tune here and there which is so easy to do with a polymer flute. So, I thoroughly understand your choice of a polymer flute!

Have fun,

Eric

5

I can’t get drawn into the M&E/Seery debate,as I have played neither(though I do own a Tony Dixon polymer),but I thought I’d chip in to say that I enjoyed your sound clips (on all four flutes) Jessie.

6

Hi,

I have owned both as well as a wooden flute. I’ll second Jessie’s opinions there. The Seery is definitely heavier than all the modern maker’s flute’s that I’ve played, as well as the old 8 key Ebony German flute I used to own. That said, for the money it is good flute, I think better than the M&E.
It is a bear to play, but can be rewarding. I’m not sure how much you have to spend, and if you’re willing to have a wood flute as well, but there are some excellent and reasonably priced wood flutes out there. You definitely have to baby them more, but they are wonderful instruments.
Someday, as the woods used become more endangered I think polymer and other synthetic flutes will evolve a bit. Pipemakers have discovered synthetics as Well. The renowned David Quinn is offering resin chanters, as well as the maker of my practice set. They don’t sound exactly like the wood ones, but hard to tell the difference. They are much more stable as well. Also an advantage with flutes as well.

Corin

7

I sold my M&E (very heavy) to get the Seery. BTW, the Seery keyless weighs about 13 oz., exactly what my Hammy blackwood 6-key (note: keyed) flute weighs. However, this is still lighter then some other makers flutes (keyless & keyed). And the Seery is the same profile for my hands, which made it easier to switch between it and the Hammy. The M&E was neither as comfortable nor as attractive (I had one with rings), and I just couldn’t move between the 2 flutes without considerable adjustment.

I liked the Seery I tried so much that I set up the website for Desi Seery.

Kevin Krell

8

Seery

9

Given the Seery and M&E as the only two to choose from, I’d say Seery if you want the big Pratten sound and are willing to put in the time and have the patience to get there.

Used to, M&E and Seery were the best two choices for learning flute either on a limited budget or as a first flute to learn on.

I can’t help but point out the Casey Burns “beginners” wooden flute, though. The price is lower than either the M&E or the Seery, and it has been met with a very positive reception.

And for more money, but not that much more, than either a Seery or a M&E, you could get a Hamilton keyless, and have one of the best Irish flutes made today.

All of that said, none of the inexpensive flutes are going to play like a Hamilton, but in my opinion, the Seery comes closest, if you’ve got what it takes to learn to play it. I would say the M&E models are a better choice if you don’t have the time or patience to invest in mastering a Pratten-style flute.

–James

10

I flip-flop on this one. Since these are flutes often used by novices, it’s hard to get good data on them. My first Irish flute was an M&E; i still have it. It’s very well made, no problem with the holes like Jessie described. I loved that flute to death.

Recently i had a chance to try the Seery, and i was converted. I think the Seery is a better flute to prepare you for a large-holed wooden flute.

Even more recently, after leaving the M&E on the shelf unplayed for about a year, i decided to give it another try, and fell in love with it all over again. Beautiful sound, balanced, no weak notes, good tuning, strong bottom. It was enough to make me rething the whole large-hole-flute thing.

I think both are good. I have less experience with the Seery, but i’ve seen people blow the heck out of those things, that you would never guess they’re playing a plastic flute. I have a lot more experience with the M&E, and as i said, it’s a great flute and very well made. The only complaint i have about the M&E is the weight. Heavy things, they are.

I really think it’s better to buy a quality plastic flute first, then if you “upgrade” to wood, keep your plastic flute, for trips, etc.

g

11

I KNEW it;
I knew this was a good button to push :slight_smile:
You guys are just too kind sharing your knowledge with us newbies.

And thanks, Jessie, for the soundclips.
I hope it’s OK for me to ask a question: One can’t help but notice that the Seery clip is somewhat out of tune :blush:, and the M&E comes second to that. So now I wonder, is this somehow because they are Polymer flutes, slightly cheap (“inexpensive”) flutes or just because they are the two you were least used to at the moment?

Also, the term “Pratten-style” is becoming a slightly infamous institution. Why is this? Is it because the bigger holes are more difficult to play, or is it something with the bore that makes it tricky to control somehow? Any general considerations around this would also be appreciated.

So patience means ‘Seery’ huh?
I am not known for my patience, rather for getting impatient immediately, yet staying at it :wink: Which means: So far, the Seery seems to be a head ahead (!).

Thanks,

Eivind


PS. So now everybody wants a Seery so it will be hopeless to get one’s hands on one…[sigh]

12

In a nutshell, “Pratten-style” means big bore, big tone holes, big tone. All of which make a flute a little tougher to play, but once you get to their level, Prattens are much fun to play. I’ve played both major styles of Wood flute and I’ve found that Pratten’s lend themselves particularly well to kind of rhythmic, percussive phrasing. That could just be my particular playing style though.

Corin

13

My Seery’s in tune - at least as in tune as any simple system flute. It does have the traditional slightly flat low D so you can blow a hard D though. I think if you’re used to a flute you tend to lip up or down notes to get it in tune without thinking about it.

As for the Seery finish problems Jessie mentioned, mine is a recently made flute (just this summer/early fall), and the tone holes were all well finished. However, on the tone hole for low D (where you put down your finger when playing a D) there was a small piece/flake of polymer that I cut off with an exacto knife. I didn’t notice this piece at first because Desi oils his polymer flutes (I think I read it’s because he thinks it helps with moisture draining - but I don’t oil now, have tried oiling, and didn’t notice a difference) and the flake must have been flat against the edge of the tone hole. However, a few weeks later, I noticed a slight fluttery sound on the Es and found the flake. Anyway, I think the nature of polymer (having made a few PVC flutes myself) is that when drilling holes the plastic flakes can flatten themselves against the plastic and be nearly unnoticable. When I’ve drilled wood, this doesn’t happen. So, that is one thing to look for with a polymer flute - any small piece/scrap of plastic.

Eric

14

Me too. I’ve owned both. the seery was thrown off the balcomy of the 31st floor by my (then) 2 year old son. so I have a M&E rudall 6-key model that sits on my Migoya flute stand on my desk for a quick tune at any time. Both good for the reasons already expressed. Go for the quickest or cheapest…and get Grey Larson’s book. That will be more valuable than stuggling over which of these flutes is better.

G

15

My Goodness! And wasn’t it also your son who “sat” on your antique R&R and broke it?!?!?!

Mary

16

This could be a problem!

The similarities outweigh the differences.

Denny

17

A bit of both, I presume. I was not at all used to them, because I didn’t like them, so I didn’t play them. That said, more expensive flutes do have better everything, including tuning, than inexpensive flutes.

I also did the recordings in a hurry, and it’s possible that I didn’t have the tuning slides in the right places. It’s totally possible to play a Seery or M&E in tune.

You know what? This thread isn’t a tug of war…everyone seems to agree.

18

I was most surprised, I have to throw in a comment, at how nice the Sweetheart flute sounded.

Was that the instrument you were most comfortable with when you made that recording, Jessie?

Stuart

19

I liked the Olwell best, but it (that one) belonged to my friend Terry. I was most used to the Sweet flute, as it didn’t require oiling or maintenance, so it was the flute I left out on a stand all the time, and I would just grab it and play it. It is a remarkably good Sweet flute that I got second-hand. Now it is at my parents’ house so I have a decent flute to play when I visit them.

20

You can hear it, Jessie. Actually, not to turn this thread into something it’s not. . . but I’m going to.

This kinda proves my point about comparisons. The Olwell was probably the best flute in the bunch of 4 Jessie played for comparison. However, and arguably, the best recording is that of the Sweetheart. That’s why I asked the admittedly-leading question, if she were most accustomed to the Sweetheart.

Interesting, though!

Stuart