I’ve not had any experience with Mr. Murray; however, since the names of some top makers of flutes have been tossed about in this post, I would like to include my experience with one such maker- Casey Burns. Casey has been great to deal with, he makes excellent flutes, is honest and responsive. Plus, he does not have a protracted waiting period. He even makes a nice, inexpensive keyless FF that is most difficult to beat, in my estimation. BTW, I think it’s refreshing to hear some frank discussion regarding individuals experiences with various makers, good or bad. Of course, accuracy, honesty and full disclosure are essential in the making of statements as it has a direct impact upon a makers reputation and livelyhood. All that having been said, I suppose that a maker who feels as though they have been misreprented or ill treated could set the record straight by posting a response, assuming that they can identify the person having made the offending statement. If that isn’t possible, then perhaps a general disclaimer might be in order.
Cheers,
Don Morgan.
I find this hawking of an instrument in rather bad taste given the context of this thread…
Assuming you’ve been reading through the thread, and especially given the context, I think it is totally appropriate to sell a good Sam Murray flute without any issues.
Yes, I have followed it and I still think in poor taste - clash of culture I guess. Just seems inappropriate given these peoples difficulties, to be trying to cash in on their problems?
I’m sorry you feel that way. My intent was not to profit from somebody’s misfortune. Quite the contrary. I wanted to offer something that people might want, without their having to go through what might be a painful process. I doubt very much that people who feel they have been mistreated by Sam would want a flute that he made. Despite the issues, Sam is an esteemed maker and his flutes are in great demand.
There is a backstory to this flute and if you like I can email you the details.
[A hawker is a vendor of merchandise that can be easily transported; the term is roughly synonymous with peddler or costermonger. In most places where the term is used, a hawker sells items or food that are native to the area. Whether stationary or mobile, hawkers often advertise by loud street cries or chants, and conduct banter with customers, so to attract attention and enhance sales. When accompanied by a demonstration and/or detailed explanation of the product, the hawker is sometimes referred to as a demonstrator or pitchman.’
The idea that Julia was ‘hawking’ a flute is unwarranted and uncalled for, if I may say so. Personally I welcomed the pics of the lovely flute. I’ve had my own problems with Sam. But when he’s good he’s very good, and people who sell good Murray flutes here do us a service, I believe.
If you’re offended by the word ‘hawking’, I’m happy to apologise. Call it ‘aggressive selling’ if you wish or ‘pushing product’. I prefer the old words and as I have ancestors who were street hawkers, I have no problem with it’s connotations.
Re Sam, I have no major problem, I have one of his 3 key blackwood flutes. It’s clear that Sam is more suited to being a local or regional craftsman, someone you deal with in person. He has an international reputation but his business & lifestyle is more local and personal. ‘Steampacket’ has been posting here for years I think and if what he says is even half true, it is a sorry story.
" ‘Steampacket’ has been posting here for years I think and if what he says is even half true, it is a sorry story." Flutered.
Yes Flutered, unfortunately it is 100% true. Sam Murray has cheated me and cquick on this forum and taken our flutes. He has cheated libraryman also a member on this forum. About 10 years ago a very famous Swedishfolksinger Sofii K., here in Sweden ordered a flute from Sam, paid the deposit, and then paid the remainder when Sam said the flute was ready for delivery. Sam kept her money and never sent the flute. Sam cheated her too. Beware Sam Murray. Some of Sam Murrays flutes are good instruments, this is true, but there are other flute makers who you can trust in Ireland, England, Australia, Germany, USA, and France making flutes that are just as good.
The only time i got to hear one of Sam Murray’s flutes live was at my local session. It had such a wonderful, sweet tone (combination of player and flute of course). I thought it was one of Casey Burns’ because i hadn’t seen that characteristic sweep at the bottom of the barrel anywhere else. I talked to the guy for a while about it. He had visited Sam Murray’s shop, fell in love with his work and ordered the flute. He then relayed the same sort of experiences i have read about so often since that time such as request for final payement and shipping and not sending the flute. Eventually he was sent the flute, i don’t think it was exactly as he had ordered it but MY OH MY it was a lovely flute, thin with a beautiful, sweet sound.
Being a talented artist does not make you a good business person.
Flutered wrote: “It’s clear that Sam is more suited to being a local or regional craftsman, someone you deal with in person.”
Is this the reason no one had followed up with legaities? Because folks that deal with him in person don’t encounter the same degree of problems that offshore orders do?
Thanks for posting the flute Julia. I am currently deeply in love with the flute i am playing now otherwise i would be tempted…
I don’t know as I don’t live in Galway or the west. I’d guess that threads like this and there have been others, don’t do the Murray reputation any good at all. Which is a great pity - it must have an impact on their potential international orders. But maybe they just don’t need these orders and are happier to deal with people in person. As regards ‘legalities’, the amounts of money involved are not small but they’re not great either so it’d be hard to justify taking a claim from a distance. I think in these cases, it’s more the ‘breach of trust’ and ‘failure of expectations’ and so on, that really matter most.
Well… some people (like, uhm, musicians) might have to save money for quite some time to be able to afford such a flute. I don’t know what he takes for his flutes, but I guess ~ 1000€ for an unkeyed to ~ 3000€ for a 6 keyer? Now I wouldn’t be that amused if someone stole me such an amount of money. That’s not just, like, oh no, he breached my trust. Just saying.
I see Sam’s flutes regularly for sale in Powell’s in Galway. That’s one way of getting them. You pay the middleman though.
My own experience with Sam is fine. I ordered a flute, paid the deposit and was promised a flute in about six weeks. Into the seventh week a message arrived with some questions about the finishing of the flute (left/right handed etc) and a request to arrange pick up at the weekend. I arranged a time and picked up the flute at the workshop, had a good chat and handed over the cheque with the balance. Not a bother.
As to the above post (a cross post) : it was €650 in my case, for a keyless, a few years ago. Not a huge amount of money in the grand scale of things. A loss to most individuals but not something the gardai or the law would get very excited about.
I must admit, I find these sorts of threads completely bemusing. I know quite a few people who have Murray flutes, and have bought direct from him. Some of them have keyless flutes and others keyed flutes. They’ve all got good stories to tell - minimal delays, price as expected and gorgeous flutes delivered at the end of it all. Mind, the people I know are just that: people I know.
I suppose what I’m saying is that I’ve yet to meet someone in the flesh who has bought a flute from Sam and had any sort of hassle.
Not sure ‘bemused’ is the right word. I know Steampacket is not too amused. I imagine things come right more often than they go wrong but if they go wrong, I don’t expect it feels very ‘bemusing’ if your flute is involved.
Sorry. You’ve lost me. It’s bemusing to me, which is why I used the word. It means confusing. Only stronger. It’s the right word for what I meant.
I think it is worth noting that bad behavior does not cancel good behavior, any more than good behavior cancels bad behavior–it just is what it is. Wouldn’t it be nice to hear from Mr. Murray on the suject of his alleged bad behavior? Perhaps, there is a whole other perspective. Absent his response (Mr. Murray’s, I mean), all one can do now is speculate and assume, which when a persons reputation is being questioned, is a slippery slope in my opinion.
No, we don’t know what Sam’s side of the story might be. But we do know he solicited orders through a website that has disappeared and that he has stopped answering queries from persons who have already sent in deposits after previously tantalizing people with “it’s almost finished” messages. Pretty damning. Given that, I am glad that Steampacket has brought a complaint and hope to hear how it turns out. Good for you Steampacket. I am sorry you have not gotten a little more support for what you are doing from this board as I think you are really doing the flute community a favor for standing up for what is right.
Libraryman: I certainly don’t wish to infer that you or Steampacket do not have some valid points, that isn’t my intent. I think that buried deeply in my last post, I to have an equally valid point, may be more than one. I guess that I like to have as much information upon which to base a judgement as I can obtain. BTW, I’m not at all certain that Steampacket does not have considerable support, as I look at the number of “views” to date, there are over 3,440 “views” of this thread with only 50 plus responses. One could surmise that this thread is of considerable interest to quite a number of persons. Impossible to know what the level of support is. Just wanted you to know that I’m not at all dismissisve of yours or Steampackets’ experience with Mr. Murray, quite the opposite, in fact.
This is a topic that comes up periodically. . .again and again. The lack of responses should not be misinterpreted. Please read [urlhttps://forums.chiffandfipple.com/t/fyi-on-dealing-with-sam-murray/68046/1][/url] and a quite a few other similar threads.
For my own part, I might buy a Murray flute as an Artifact, one I could hold in my hand and examine and evaluate before I bought it.
As to dealing with the man himself, probably not. I am quite concerned with what has become of ‘Steampacket’s’ flute. I might buy from Doc Jones, as JessieK did. But again, I would be very wary of dealing with the man himself.
Bob
I am one of those silent (until now) readers of this thread. I have had absolutely no previous contact with either parties of this conflict, but I was considering a Sam Murray flute as one of my options when time come to order a keyed flute. Last year I visited Galway and I had a close look at one of the Murray keyless flutes in Powells. Beautiful flute! It was about 1200Euros and I remember i wondered why it was so much higher priced than on the website. Of course the middleman wants some and theres no waiting time. Anyway.. I have reconsidered after reading this post and no matter how nice his flutes are I will not deal with the man if this is the way he does business. I understand there’s two sides of every story, but when several people have lost their money or flutes or both, I have no trouble saying this.
For people like me living far from any known flutemakers (I live in Norway) threads like this can save me a lot of hassle and money! Thank you to all of whos stories and experiences both good and bad are told to the users of this forum.
Ketil