Eheh yes I know, there are lots of threads about rolls, but there are no questions this time, just an observation.
We all know that the most standard fingering for the roll on E, the one you would learn from most teachers, is:
xxx xxo
XXO XXO
xxx xxo
xxx xxx
xxx xxo
I only wanted to invite people to (re)consider one of the possible fingering:
xxx xxo
XXX XOO
xxx xxo
xxx xxx
xxx xxo
I’ve always used the standard one, but I recently “discovered” this last one and I belive it really sounds nice. While the standard feels to me more solid (which is appropriate to some tunes), I think this one is more “evocative” and interesting, and somehow closer to the beautiful sound of the fiddle’s roll. The same concept applied to the F# roll is not as nice.
The roll fingering that raises the left index “pops” too much for my tastes…
There are “sound” reasons and technical reasons why the standard fingering you present is preferable in some situations. Likewise, the alternate fingering has its place. Mostly, I use the standard fingering because it allows me to use R2 as a pivot and “throw” R3/4 into the roll. When your hand is nice and loose, this makes for an effortless ornament.
Tried it on my low Bb flute, really has a nice fiddle-y feel to it. I used to use the standard fingering only, but especially in slow(er) tunes the alternate fingering has its place.
I should mention that at times the R2 cut to E is exactly what’s called for, say at the start of a phrase; it would then follow that sometimes the roll that starts like that would be exactly what’s called for. Short rolls on E might be one example.
I don’t think I ever use the one you refer to as “standard”, though well aware that is “unIrish” heresy. And however authentic it may be, when I try it out I don’t much like it. My normal E roll uses R1 for the cut (probably a Bohm start-up legacy), which also facilitates that free throwing motion of R3 for the tap which Rob referred to; I do also sometimes use the adjacent finger R2 cut instead as a conscious choice, but not often.
Since you mentioned F# rolls, my plain F# roll uses no L hand fingers at all - I cut with R1. BUT for both F# and E rolls I quite frequently double cut, leading with a L3 cut, swiftly followed by a R1 cut, then tapping R3 in the E roll and R2 in the F# one.
and that worked pretty well, sounded pretty crisp, but starting with the L3 finger just makes it smoother for me, easier to throw in without thinking about it.
I really don’t like your one jim
Jem’s ok, but I don’t find it very comfortable and IMHO it doesn’t add much to the two rolls I use.
I too sometimes add some other stuff in a roll, but I value very much the sound quality of a simple roll (especially this last one I opened the thread about). These “cranny-rolls” sound too modern to me sometimes.
Interesting… on my flute I have the exact opposite problem. The L3 cut is so soft, you can hardly tell it’s there. It works ok for a normal long roll, but when the cut falls on the beat I switch to R1 to get a little more oomph.
I belive the left index is referred to as L1. Actually, in this particular case, there is a huge difference between the roll in the low and in the high octave. On the low 8ve it pops (on my flute at least), on the high one you can’t really hear it.
