Right hand problems

Irish Flute
21

Dear Cork. Dear Stone.
I don’t know if you are naturally obtuse or so ego-driven that you can’t let a thread go by with saying something - no matter what has been said before, or by whom.
Assuming you know who Harry Bradley is, and why he is so respected (listen to his clip), you would do well to pay attention when he says anything about playing the flute. This is what he said regarding grip:

I’ve seen literally hundreds of methods for holding the flute… relaxing the grip/ hands/ arms/ shoulders/ everything is the key to not getting pain regardless of what weird way you hold the thing.

I’m sorry to be so harsh. Sorry to be so ad hominum. But in this case your soi-disant advice could actually be more harmful than beneficial.

22

Just to lighten this up a bit … And to thank talasiga for the link.

No other comments from me – too much the grasshopper to do anything other than read [and snicker].

23

gododdin,

from viewing the photos, the rh looks relaxed, except the pinkie of course. do you think the strain that you feel in your hand is from that pinkie being anchored like that?
if so, read on…
…sometimes seperation of movement of pinkie from ring finger can feel uncomfortable in some hands where independent motor skills in each finger have not been developed - the ring and pinkie tend to want to hangout together. now when the pinkie becomes fixed and the ring still wants to move around, that situation can create a strain like feeling in the hand. not a bad thing, just a little learning curve (for the ring finger).
two things come to mind: let the pinkie move with the ring if it 's too unbearable to keep it anchored, or put a clump of beeswax or something on the flute where the pinkie wants to come to rest, to lessen the reach and strain. there are also exercises and stretches i can elabortate on if it is of interest (i am trained in soft tissue release (str) / repetitive use injury therapy(ruit)) .
hope that helps

24

Pots and kettles!!!

But seriously, I detect a touch of (undesirable!) tension and strain here, of another kind. I’m not a big forum contributor, just the occasional twopennorth, but I offer what I offer in a spirit of helpfulness (and not didactically - though I have been told I sometimes come over as didactic and absolute when I don’t mean to…!) and I think it is a shame when someone embarks on a crusade or bitchery - quite spoils the whole thing, which generally is so supportive, humourous, generous, etc. etc. By all means argue if you think someone has got things factually wrong - and show how, but why just carp?

BTW, if my previous post on this thread is read carefully, it should be clear that I conform to the general tenor of advice in this thread - relax! and I do not really prescribe a particular “correct” posture/hold: rather I advocate/explain ways of seeking the individual’s optimum. That said, whilst I do not believe there is one “correct” or “best” way, I do think there are ways that are demonstrably disadvantageous (notwithstanding - and I have acknowledged this in a previous related thread - that I fully respect many great players who use pipers’ grip, rest on their shoulders, etc.), yes, even “wrong”, and advice can be given to help identify potentially harmful traits and encourage methods that on anatomical/ergonomic grounds may be preferable/helpful. I don’t think anything I’ve said is necessarily in conflict with Harry’s comments.

I think that the value of what a contributor has to say is chiefly apparent intrinsically, without the need for “credentials”, but, to placate the crusader(s), I have been playing for 31 years, about 25 of those chiefly on 8-key simple system. I’m widely read (Quantz, Rockstro, Boehm, Bate, Galway, others I don’t specifically recall, as well as periodical stuff and much on-line) on flute history and playing, but am not classically trained nor an academic. I listen to both trad Celtic music and Period Performance of Baroque and Classical repertory. I teach (trad) when there is a demand (limited locally). I get paid to play from time to time (less than I’d like!). I’d consider myself to be at a fairly advanced level as a player and as a semi-pro, but emphatically not in the upper echelons. I think honest and realistic self-evaluation is a virtue and a strength. I know how good I’m NOT for sure! I’ll post a clip or two eventually when I have time, although if you’ll excuse the bad sound quality of the transfers (I’m a learner re: the technology), you can find some demo clips I linked on the postings I’ve listed of flutes for sale. I’d like to think I play better on my own familiar flute, which isn’t represented there. I only make serious posts when I’m confident I know what I’m on about - if I don’t have a good knowledge base, I shut up, read and learn… (except when I can’t resist a bit of word play!!!)

25

What a pity that my pointless, subjective and thoroughly useless piece of information has become the pivot of an argument.

Information and opinions do not make flute players. Nearly every learner gets a sore thumb or hand or something, then they relax into it a bit and it generally goes away unless they form a habit, or practice badly. Its hardly the stuff of another crap internet thesis.

Now, lets all shut the f**k up… just a suggestion, of course. :wink:

Regards,

Harry.

26

Hear, hear!

Though I’d not say it was useless at all.

Nearly every learner gets a sore thumb or hand or something, then they relax into it a bit and it generally goes away unless they form a habit, or practice badly.

Agreed.

Now, lets all shut the f**k up… just a suggestion, of course. > :wink:

zzzziiiipppp

27

Yer welcome!

Seeing as the original poster’s RH tehnique had apparently failed, it made sense to suggest the “standard” RH technique, a technique which in one way and another has been with the flute playing community for more than three hundred years, so I had better not screw up the presentation, or legions of other flute players from around the world could correct me, pronto.

:wink:

28

Well now, at the risk of sounding like a diplomat :wink: I think that there is a lot of wisdom here from all parties:

  1. I think it probably is a good idea to adopt a standard-ish approach to the right hand, because anything too esoteric might be likely to lead to tension and the standard techniques have probably evolved precisely because they lead to a relaxed approach.

  2. Having said that I detect that there is much variation around the ‘standard’ approaches, but I really believe that the secret is in relaxation and the whole idea of ‘relinquishing control’ (as you can tell, I like that a lot :slight_smile: - thanks Harry!) . Having struggled with undue tension on the fiddle for years the last thing I want is to go down the same road with the flute, hence my concern regarding the tension.

As a beginner the main thing I want to avoid is getting into bad habits. The worst habit of all is to have tension in your body but my concern was that a ‘bad’ right hand technique could lead to such tension. From what you’ve collectively said it sounds as if my hand position is good enough to be going on with and that the main thing I need to concentrate on is ‘whole’body’ relaxation.

I’m also going to take on board Rama’s comments about the pinkie and may try lifting it once in a while to relax it (because yes, I think the strain I feel is at least partly down to anchoring the pinkie). One thing I’ve noticed from the pics is that it’s quite a long way out from the ring finger, so I’m also going to try moving it in a little closer.

Thanks again for the help and advice.

29

You may also try and note if your left hand is pulling down on the flute causing your right to work harder to keep it up.

…john

30

I had that once in my left hand when trying to play one handed B rolls nonstop for 10 minutes. Something I never tried again.

When I first started flute I got a lot of muscle aches in both hands. I used a squeezy ball to strengthen them.

Here’s something I’ve not seen mentioned in this thread. Sometimes you can be unconsciously turning the flute while playing, to get the tone to improve. The left hand starts to push in or turn to get the flute closer to your lip, but then your right hand compensates by pressing outward to get balance, that makes you turn in with the left, etc. Doing all that, while trying to maintain your fingering, ends up in tension. To see if this happens, put the flute up to your mouth normally and do the fingerings of some tune you know, but not any blowing. See if your hands stay relaxed that way.

The solution I was told is to always press as lightly as possible on the lip. And continue to work on tone. (Using your mouth not your hands.) Hope that helps some.