Hi, wanting a bit of advice,My main instrument is bagpipes but I’ve been playing a metal flute for years and increasingly playing more flute so am moving on to a wooden one, have just ordered after much thought a Gilles Lehart 6 keys in D!! Very excited so in preparation have been playing a keyless geert lejeune I borrowed with a view to buy ( tho decided I need keys) and love the Lehart sound, problem is I have been having very painfull hands, dotor thinks could be carpal tunnel-eeek. Was wondering if its normal to have some hand pain when starting off on a wooden D, I have never had any problems with my F or metal flute, advice please, it even hurts to type!
number 10
C&F Consolidated Concordat on Policy
now if ya’d like 10+ conflicting explanations of how yer holding it wrong…post a couple a pictures!
Well, so long as we’re not going beyond good common sense and basic pointers for advice, we ought to be okay. That’s also per the Concordat. 
Denny’s probably onto something suggesting that grip may be your problem, kernowpiper; grip is an often-discussed topic surrounding simple-system flutes, and not just as regards ease of play alone. After all, you do say that you don’t have pain with your other instruments. But pain carrying over from playing simple-system, into your typing - that sounds a bit extreme as well as specific. We do need more practical info if we can help turn this around for you: what IS your grip? How hard are you gripping? How often, and long, do you practice? Are you forcing yourself to play through pain? How long have you been at your new instrument, particularly as regards what habits you may have?
These are issues we can discuss, and that experienced trad fluteplaying expertise can advise on. Not all of such expertise may be in total agreement, but that’s not the point; we should be able to give you practical options to try, and settle on as you find is best for you.
oh fine…
getting a keyed “D” might cure your issue. The keys help keep the sucker from rolling. It may be that you are just gripping harder on the “D”.
The right hand stretch is more of a problem on a “Classical” (conical wooden will do on this forum) than on a Boehm (cylindrical metal).
The addition of an Eb key should give yer little finger something helpful to do and might alleviate the pain.
ah, assuming yer holding the “metal flute” correctly 
If yer not the “D” is gonna make whatever worse.
ya could mention left, right or both…
please note my creative use of white space to make my post look longer 
Me having to guide two medical threads in one day, and now what do we get? A pill. 
Iam new to this forum but couldnt help notice your thread.
I suffer from sore hands also when playing , mainly at the knuckle area but i find if i warm my hands ie radiator or on a cup of tea for 5 mins before playing iam usually pain free .
Just a suggestion , hope it helps .
havin’ to? I was doin’ okay before ya got here 
ubiquitous
sry posted that twice !!
Guess I was just…um…inspired. One of those days…you get the idea.
ubiquitous >
Yep. The Raised Eyebrow of Nano shines on all alike. Not that a Chiffer would usually know.
Standard to soak one’s hands/wrists in hot water before playing and also to ice them afterwards.
This helps.
If you start getting into serious pain, stop!
Review your basic grip of the instrument and see if you can locate a problem.
Break up practicing into shorter sections, so that you take a few minutes off (e.g. ten) every now and then.
I’m no stranger to hand pain, thanks to 30 years of making thousands of flutes. I have pretty severe arthritis in my left thumb from using it as a vice with the 1st finger while working on keys, and occasional carpal tunnel symptoms that flare up, usually when I am rushing to get a bunch of flutes out the door (such as this week). Fortunately it usually doesn’t affect my guitar playing. A few days ago while buffing rings the 600 grit steel wool I was holding with both hands caught on the spindle rotating at 3600 rpm and dragged my right hand to it forcefully and my index finger took the brunt of the high speed collision and has been sore and a bit swollen, though not broken. The cartilage took the worst of it. It throbbed all last night and I didn’t sleep much (see footnote). I finished all of the month’s metal work yesterday and today has been tuning and voicing which uses slightly different positions so my hands have gotten a slight break although they are still sore. I have 4 more flutes to finish and get into the oil tonight which will make tomorrow a much easier day.
Ibuprofen or your anti-inflammatory du jour helps. So does a break and I have one planned starting Friday until the end of the month. No flute making or flute playing. Next month and the month after are similarly busy months with keyed flute orders (I’ve been getting a bunch of these lately) but with additional breaks planned, one to go off and do some paleontology for the California Academy of Sciences and the other to attend my daughter’s college graduation.
Main thing is to let the inflammation subside. Total abstinence for a spell is usually the best remedy, rather than trying to work through it. If its arthritis, then the pain is indicating the cartilage tissue between the joints is getting inflamed, usually from degeneration which is not reversible unfortunately. I wear an over the counter neoprene thumb splint (Comfort Cool) when not working and that helps. Putting all of ones corresponding fingertips together and pressing the palms together is a good exercise for the carpal tunnel areas. Finally if these issues persist, visit a good orthopedist. The one I go to is great.
Another thing is what is the finger stretch like on the flute you have been borrowing? If your hands span 7.5" or less when fully stretched you might have difficulty with a large holed and large spanned flute such as a Pratten copy. That is if you are playing with fingertips as on the modern flute. The piper’s grip using the fleshy parts of the joints keeping the hands flatter rather than curved may be a good solution for a wider stretch. Gilles can probably compensate some if a narrower finger spacing or offsetting holes slightly is required. I’ve always found that adapting the flute to the player is always much easier than adapting the player to the flute, especially if the hands are already beginning to complain.
If I find it in the next few days, I’ll post an xray of my left hand, showing the thumb arthritis.
Casey
(footnote - I usually call this type of event “Celebrating National Hand Mutilation Week” though usually that involves some sort of slicing into the hand with some sort of sharp tool or crushing it with something massive such as an engine block or a poorly aimed geologist’s pick)
(another footnote for the moderatori - this is not medical advice.)
Thankyou all for all your replys, very helpful, I think it is to do with the way I have been holding the flute so looking into that. My handspan is only just at a push 7 inches (if im measuring that right) so now im freaking out abit about my Lehart choice as I know his flutes have large holes etc, I just love the sound with the bonus of it affordable, but even so prefer the tone. Anyone here play a Lehart whos got smaller hands? Thankyou all again, Lisa
In addition to all the helpful advice above, keep in mind that we tend not to relax when doing/playing something new - playing tunes at speed because you can, rather than slowing them down and relaxing so that your muscles, tendons, ligaments, etc. adjust to the new hand/finger positions. Basically, relax and go slowly. Make sure you’re not pushing into pain - if you feel pain, relax more, and slow it down some more. Since you already have pain, of course, take some anti-inflamatories, rest between playing, soak your hands, and go even more slowly…
Oh - and those other things - typing, etc. - are carpel tunnel and tendonitis activities waiting to happen, anyway, regardless of your flute (or any instrument). So the above advice applies to all things you’re doing with your hands. If you just lay off the flute and keep typing while in pain, nothing with change.
FWIW, I suffered from tendonitis for years, and my large-holed Pratten style flute was at the top of the blame list. I tried many holistic and medicinal avenues, smaller holed flutes and stopping altogether, but ended up with a physical therapist that worked on the whole body, not just my elbows, hands and wrists. When I did finally conquer the tendonitis (always mindful it can return), the large-holed flute was the flute left standing, with no tendonitis pain when playing it. So it’s really more about hand positioning, getting your tendons/ligaments stretched slowly, and most of all, relaxing your muscles - especially the peripheral ones you are not using! - while you play.
In line with the above, a while back I posted a note about an interesting book entitled “The Athletic Musician: a guide to playing without pain” by Barbara Paull (Orthopedic physiotherapist) and Christine Harrison (classical violinist). (Scarecrow Press, London, 1997; used copies from $16 on Amazon or your local inter-library loan system might get it).
The premise is that musicians are subject to the same impacts from overuse injuries as athletes and should approach their activities (including recuperation) the way an athlete (with supporting medical/training staff) would. it provides an explanation of how the various cervical and spinal nerves affect muscles, how overuse and/or poor posture can have significant impacts, and offers a series of warm-up, warm-down, stretching and strengthening exercises.
The exercises seemed to help relieve the pains in my shoulder from excessive flute practice.
Best wishes.
Steve
I have small hands for a guy, so to get a comfortable working spread on my Noy my own personal best solution is to use the so-called “piper’s grip”. There’s no one solution that isn’t a tradeoff in some way, because if transverse flute isn’t the most ergonomically boneheaded instrument ever invented, it at least forever soars the heights in that hall of fame. So my hand pains aren’t altogether eliminated, just far more manageable, and located differently than would be those of someone who uses a more classically standard grip. Another person might have more pain doing it my way. And also OTOH I can’t use my Bb key with my grip (why, oh why didn’t I think to ask for a double touch on that one?) so I have to crossfinger it. There’s your tradeoffs for you. But I’d rather play than suffer more than I need to.
There are makers who offer flutes for small hands, but I personally don’t recall who those makers are.
Casey does; John Gallagher does.
Some trouble at the beginning isn’t so exceptional, and if it persists there is indeed something to be said
for trying a small-holed rudally flute or one especially made for small hands.
No, it’s not normal, it’s not good and it’ll probably only get worse if you don’t address the cause, but you’re also in a prime position to address one of the likely causes with an as yet unmade flute…
While I’d put my hands on the large side of average, I’m missing a left-hand finger and suffered from constant tensions and pains in that hand from stretching my pinkie to cover the widely-spaced inline L3 hole on my Sweetheart flute where I’d never had any trouble with (the far smaller stretch actually required by) my Boehm flute. Now I’m playing custom Dave Copley flutes with reduced spacing and significant offset on that hole, these tensions and pains have quite simply gone, and I’d suggest that you get discussing your problem with your flute maker (ie Gilles Lehart) and working together on potential solutions rather than just hoping for the best.
New to the forum, an finding all sorts of great information.
I’ve wrestled with wrist and hand pain as well. As a piper and whistle player I have a tendency to overdo it.
Another book resource that you might find helpful (I have certainly benefited from it):
'End You Carpal Tunnel Pain without Srugery" by Kate Montgomery.
Although I don’t have carpal tunnel, I have found the exercises recommend in the book to be very helpful for tendonitis as well.
As you probably already know if things aren’t getting better after a rest, it would be wise to talk with your doctor.
-Willie Stromeyer
Thanks again all for advice, Casey,checked out your website a few times nice flutes indeed. I too have worked my hands to the bone as one of the u.ks few female dry stone wallers for a time, long given up and now heading into arthritus years regreting the litteral hammering I gave my hands! I’m going to work on my “pipers grip” and all the the other stuff. I spoke to Gilles Lehart earlier and he seems to think its the way Ive been holding the flute and I have known a few small Breton folk with hands smaller than mine who play Lehart without a problem so going ahead mindfully, relaxing along the way! and if its a bad match I can always divorce and go for a smaller model. So thanks once again, good to have some support. Off now to soak my sore hands in Epsom salts and breath…
So true Nano! I’ve rather smaller hands too, so if I don’t share your pain Kernowpiper, I sure have!
Sounds like my stretch is rather more than yours (to edges of fingers?) at 8.5", but a lot of this wasn’t there to begin with. Finger extension developed from playing flute etc, and it took some years. But pushing through pain as others noted is probably a very bad idea.
I had hand pain to begin with, esp. the right hand with Olwell Pratten model keyless, initially. This ain’t advice, just relating, OK? I found that supporting the flute with the RH little finger did wonders, but the problem was, no key or keyblock. Needed some elevation there. So after experimentation, I carefully crafted an ebony riser which I glued to the foot section. I even used very thin sandpaper over the curve of the footjoint for final fitting, so now it looks like it was turned, not glued on. I never regretted that. It eased the pain a lot.
Also, I’m not promoting this in any way and don’t know heaps about it, but there’s something called Alexander Technique which aims to reduce repetitive strain, especially with musicians. I have a friend who teaches that. But I’ve no opinion about whether that would help…just saying it’s out there.
This might be an odd thought, but if I were in your position, I would do a careful tracing of my hand at full extension, or better a photo with a metric scale in the shot, and send that to M. Lehart. See what he thinks.
Yes, piper grip is an option for many, not for me. My joints are in the wrong places or something! And if you end up playing tunes with lots of key usage, like I do, you’re kinda screwed. Don’t lose hope.