My girlfriend will be performing some traditional Irish folk songs in a recital in September. Can anyone recommend a website that can help her in the proper pronunciation of Irish place names?
Clark
Place names in Irish I’m assuming? (or just names of places in Ireland?)
here’s a couple guides to Irish pronunciation that have sound samples:
http://fiosfeasa.com/bearla/language/sounds.htm
http://www.celticpagan.com/celt/pron.htm
I don’t know any sites specifically dealing with the pronunciation of place names specifically, but there might be some out there…
cheers,
Sara
Sites dealing specifically with Irish:
http://www.irishgaelictranslator.com/translation/
http://www.standingstones.com/gaelpron.html
This is just a sampling, of course.
djm
Placenames (in England just as much as in Ireland) often deviate from expected pronunciation.
If you can identify the placenames sufficiently in advance, we can try to help you out.
But post them to this thread, and don’t rely on PM-ing me in case I’m AWOL from C&F at the time.
I’m a regular at Irish Gaelic Translator.com, and we frequently help people with pronunciation. The best thing is to take the specific place names over there…we can give her a good approximation.
It is worth noting, however, that different dialects of Irish say things a little differently. Also, if she’s American, it’s best to ask one of the American translators to do the phonetics, as we often pronounce things a bit differently than people from Ireland or England, and what works phonetically for an Irish person may be confusing for an American.
Redwolf
My friend has given me a list of the songs and the speciifc words/names she’s not sure how to pronouce.
AT BOULAVOGUE AS THE SUN WAS SETTING
Boulavogue
Shelmalier
Kilcormack
Barrow
Wexford
Bookey’s regiment
Camolin
Enniscorthy
Slieve Coillte
Yeos
Tuberneering
Ballyellis
Vinegar Hill
Slaney
Tullow
MINSTREL BOY
sully
THE CRUISKEEN LAWN ( CRUISCÍN LÁN)
Cruiscín Lán
Oh, gradh mo chroide mo cruiscin
Slainte geal Mauverneen,
Gradh mo chroide mo cruiscin lan
CARRICKFERGUS
Carrickfergus
Ballygrant
Kilkenny
LANNIGAN’S BALL
Athol
Whack! fal, lal, tal, ladeddy. Hurroo!
Kitty O’Harra
craythur
“millia murther”
Tim Dermody
Most of those aren’t in Irish, and they’re pretty much pronounced the same way they’re spelled. For the most part, they’re Anglicized spellings, so if she pronounces them the way they look to her, they’ll be correct.
You mean she seriously can’t figure out how to pronounce “Kitty O’Harra”? Or “Sully”? Or “Wexford”? Or “Vinegar Hill”? What is her native language?
Anyway, the little bit of Irish you have there is:
Crúiscín Lán: KROOSH-keen lahn (it means “little full jug”)
Oh, gradh mo chroide mo cruiscin (misspelled…it should be Ó, grá mo chroí, mo chrúiscín): Oh, grah muh khree, muh KHROOSH-keen (“O, love of my heart, my little jug”)
Slainte geal Mauverneen (misspelled…should be “Sláinte geal, mo mhuirnín”) SLAHN-cheh g(y)al muh WUR-neen (“bright health to my darling”)
Gradh mo chroide mo cruiscin lan" See above.
The sound represented by “kh” is the same sound as the ch in “Bach” or “loch”…as if you started to pronounce the letter “k,” but didn’t close your throat all the way. The sound represented by (y) is a very slight “y” glide. You don’t actually pronounce the y, but you shape your mouth as if you were going to.
The only other bit there that is Irish (again, misspelled) is “Slieve Coillte” (should be “Sliabh Coillte”): SHLEEV KILL-cheh: (means “Mountain of forests”)
She might want to listen to some recordings of these songs before she actually sings them. I strongly advise doing so before trying to perform any traditional music…just as with Irish instrumental music, you can’t perform Irish song adequately without doing some ear training. It’s very different from American/English folksong.
Redwolf
Thanks. I printed your response and gave it to her. She speaks English and of course knows how to pronounce the most obvious words on the list. She just thought there might be a particular “Irish” twist to them. She has listened to some recordings (Lannigan’s Ball, for example) and heard Athol pronounced both A-THOL and A-thy, and has no way of knowing which is more correct for the purpose of performing the songs to the best of her ability.
A-thol is correct (emphasis on the first syllable). A-thy is a different place.
Redwolf
Boulavogue = Bool a vogue
Shelmalier = Shell ma leer
Kilcormack = Kill core muck
Barrow = Barrow
Wexford = Wexford
Bookey’s regiment
Camolin =Camolin (emphasis on 2nd syllabyl -“o”)
Enniscorthy = Ennis corthy
Slieve Coillte = sleeve keel-cha
Yeos = Yo’s
Tuberneering = Tuber nearing
Ballyellis = Bally ellis
Vinegar Hill = Vinegar Hill
Slaney = Slay knee
Tullow = Tullow
In fact, there’s an Athol in Idaho, and people where I grew up always used to make jokes about “the A**hole from Athol”
Redwolf
With you most of the way, Redser, but some additional pointers:
Shelmalier: the “ma” is unstressed and the vowel is the neutral ah/uh sound, the last syllable is long
KilCORmack: cor rather than core, and it’s the stressed syllable the mack is the same neutral vowel as above
Shleeve QUILL tha (It’s in Leinster, whereas your transcription is more like Connaught or -God help us - Donegal Irish
Tubber NEAring (it’s not a potato getting closer)
Slaney: First syllable stressed, second syllable unstressed and short
Them’s fighting words, a chara! Gaeilge Dhún na nGall abú! 
Redwolf
Yep 100%.
Locally the ‘core’ version is used. Same with Duncormick.
You know, you have me racking my brains here. Slieve Coillte is the mountain in JF Kennedy Park outside New Ross and about 10 miles from where I grew up. I cycled up it numerous times. Keel Cha is the way I have been pronouncing it for the past number of years (probably associated with the box play of the same name) but it’s more likely from Canúint na Mumhain than Donegal. I can’t recall what we used to call it growing up (most likely ‘the lookout in kendy park’ 
) Then there is the ‘kyle cha’ prounciation often used in the song/poem “Caoineadh Coill Cháis”. I’m pretty sureany one of the three pronounciations would be acceptable, despite the fact that it’s a Wexford song. Most Wexford Irish speakers I know use Munster Irish anyway, probably due to the numbers of Munster and particularly Kerry school teachers in the county.
Oops my bad, Tubber of course. Easy to tell this is my first attempt at writing phonetically. I should have left it to the experts but it seemed like nobody was going to respond.
Yes, but still pronounced “Slay” rather than “Sla”.
Here’s where I should probably mention that American English would make no distinction in pronunciation between the sounds in “core” “cor” and “cohr”…so you’re both right. 
Redwolf
My friend is very appreciative of all the help. Would it be possible to render these pronunciations in the International Phonetic Alphabet? Since she is a professional singer and professor of voice, this would be the surest way for her to reproduce these sounds accurately.
I’m sorry…I don’t know IPA, and wouldn’t have the font to render it if I did.
If your friend’s American, what we’ve given here should be adequate…especially if she’s already listened to the songs.
Redwolf
I’m sure it would.
All you would need is someone who speaks Irish, knows the IPA and has plenty of time on their hands.
I, at best, only half-satisfy 2 out of the 3 criteria.
I sit corrected.
Most of the words aren’t Irish, so that first criterium probably isn’t necessary.
Redwolf