what happened to samhain?

Ah well, forget about scary avatars and stuff! I take it back.
Halloween isnt really about “psycho”,"Amityville horror"etc, its really about the tradition of celebrating the end of harvesting, when it gets a wee bit blurry between the far side and this side. Just remembered today, some uh i dont know some mad deeper thing reminded me of previuos “halloweens”!
Its about going up to Loughcrew,Shantemon,Nowth or Dowth with a group of friends, maybe a couple of instruments, headin up to the Cairns, maybe sampling some of the local seasonal fungi along the way! :wink:
,and lighting a big fire and just losing yourself for the night in a long forgotten emotion,about remembering the seasons, and not being afraid of the dark!
Dont get me wrong, i understand where halloween got its imagery from… broomsticks, magic potion, bats..etc, Its just that i think its nice from time to time to try and remember stuff thats rooted in your genes but has benn forgotten in the modern era!

Anyway thought id get that off me chest. This time tomorrow night i will have changed my mind and will probably end up in some strobe-lit daft party unable to spell me own name !

P.S. Actually come to think of it, id love to see “Young Frankenstein” again tonight! :blush:

Savain isn’t Christian, so few people celebrate it, as compared to Halloween, although, to be honest, I don’t see how Halloween is supposed to be more Christian. Is there a patron saint of pumpkins who was born or died on October 30th, perhaps?

Some of us still observe Samhain. :slight_smile:

I think (here anywy) that it was stolen by christianity somewhere around the time that St.Patrick set fire to his rubbish! I think it was turned into “all souls” day or something.

Hmmm Psylocibes!!

I know. It’s all the same in my view, anyway. It’s sort of like Halloween was “planted” over top of Samhain and a lot of new ritual/belief was added or taken away, and they gave it a new name.

The same, in general, is also true for Christmas, Easter, and most all the other “Christian” holidays–they have non-Christian histories.

I know I probably sound like I’m coming straight from the Church Of God International or one of those wacky groups that is extremely adverse to celebrating holidays at all times, but I’m really not! I’m not that adamant, at least… :stuck_out_tongue:

Oh, Cran… my comment wasn’t meant to be in response your post necessarily. I was responding more to flanum’s thread title. :slight_smile: But I do agree with your “planting” theory, actually.

Fiona Apple has a song which says “and if you’re right, you’ll agree” so you must be right! :slight_smile:

It’s spelled “Samhain” (and pronounced “SOW-in,” where the “ow” rhymes with what you say when you stub your toe). And it’s on November 1 (and, actually, it’s the Irish name for the entire month of November). In the Christian calendar, it became All Saints Day (All Souls Day is on Nov. 2). What we call Halloween (“All Hallow’s Even”, i.e., the night before the feasts of the hallowed dead) is “Oíche Shamhna” (pro. EE-hyeh HOW-nuh).

The idea of commemorating our beloved dead didn’t really change much when Pádraig brought Christianity to Ireland. In fact, many cultures do it. Our local cathedral, in conjunction with a largely Mexican congregation, is setting up a commemoration altar for Dia de los Muertos, which will be there when we sing the Fauré Requiem in observance of All Souls Day this Wednesday.

Redwolf

When I was a kid, out in the country in the mountains, we celebrated Halloween by going way up a “holler”, building a big fire, playing some tunes, etc. just as you describe. Perhaps it’s in the genes afterall. Oh, there was one other thing we always did- cut down as many trees across the road as possible in strategic spots. The bus could NEVER get through to take us to school the day after Halloween. :smiley:

Well, perhaps you could look it up and find out? Then share what you find?

\


Professor Lambchop

I’ve heard it pronounced with a “v” sound, before (probably from my German friend(s) though I’m not certain), and relatively positive that I’ve seen it spelled Savain. I couldn’t tell you where, though. :blush:

That’s something else you could look up. :slight_smile:

Isn’t the point of having a forum, and especially an off-topic forum discussion? If everybody looked everything up all the time, there would be little discussion and then the Pub would close down.

On second thought–don’t answer that.

Look it up!

I should have done that! :slight_smile: I tried in vain to get let off from High School on All Saints’ Day.

Sorry, but it’s wrong. I’ve heard some people pronounce it that way too, but they’re almost always people with no knowledge of Irish whatsoever who picked up the pronunciation from some novel.

Redwolf

Or Scottish?

I don’t need to look it up. Yes, the point is to have a discussion. But, “discussion” doesn’t mean yapping half-baked notions and speculation, then expecting everyone else to tell you what’s wrong with it.

You’re supposed to bring something worthwhile to the table.

Look it up. If you want to talk about Samhain’s influence on Halloween, then look it up and post something factual that is fit for discussion.

I think you’re being entirely too nitpickity and putting too much effort into telling me all this because I don’t care at all about what you have to say anymore. Besides, I told you not to answer. :wink:

From a newsletter I get:

IRISH HALLOWEEN TRADITIONS

The Celts celebrated Halloween as Samhain, ‘All
Hallowtide’ - the ‘Feast of the Dead’, when the
dead revisited the mortal world. The celebration
marked the end of Summer and the start of the
Winter months.

During the eighth century the Catholic Church
designated the first day of November as ‘All
Saints Day’ (‘All Hallows’) - a day of
commemoration for those Saints that did not have
a specific day of remembrance. The night before
was known as ‘All Hallows Eve’ which, over time,
became known as Halloween.

Here are the most notable Irish Halloween
Traditions:

Colcannon for Dinner: Boiled Potato, Curly Kale
(a cabbage) and raw Onions are provided as the
traditional Irish Halloween dinner. Clean coins
are wrapped in baking paper and placed in the
potato for children to find and keep.

The Barnbrack Cake: The traditional Halloween
cake in Ireland is the barnbrack which is a
fruit bread. Each member of the family gets a
slice. Great interest is taken in the outcome as
there is a piece of rag, a coin and a ring in
each cake. If you get the rag then your financial
future is doubtful. If you get the coin then you
can look forward to a prosperous year. Getting
the ring is a sure sign of impending romance
or continued happiness.

The Ivy Leaf: Each member of the family places a
perfect ivy leaf into a cup of water and it is
then left undisturbed overnight. If, in the
morning, a leaf is still perfect and has not
developed any spots then the person who placed the
leaf in the cup can be sure of 12 months health
until the following Halloween. If not…

The Pumpkin: Carving Pumpkins dates back to the
eighteenth century and to an Irish blacksmith
named Jack who colluded with the Devil and was
denied entry to Heaven. He was condemned to
wander the earth but asked the Devil for some
light. He was given a burning coal ember which he
placed inside a turnip that he had gouged out.

Thus, the tradition of Jack O’Lanterns was born

  • the bearer being the wandering blacksmith - a
    damned soul. Villagers in Ireland hoped that the
    lantern in their window would keep the wanderer
    away. When the Irish emigrated in their millions
    to America there was not a great supply of turnips
    so pumpkins were used instead.

Halloween Costumes: On Halloween night children
would dress up in scary costumes and go house to
house. ‘Help the Halloween Party’ and ‘Trick or
Treat’ were the cries to be heard at each door.
This tradition of wearing costumes also dates back
to Celtic times. On the special night when the
living and the dead were at their closest the
Celtic Druids would dress up in elaborate costumes
to disguise themselves as spirits and devils in
case they encountered other devils and spirits
during the night. By disguising they hoped that
they would be able to avoid being carried away at
the end of the night. This explains why witches,
goblins and ghosts remain the most popular
choices for the costumes.

Snap Apple: After the visits to the neighbours the
Halloween games begin, the most popular of which
is Snap Apple. An apple is suspended from a string
and children are blindfolded. The first child to
get a decent bite of the apple gets to keep their
prize. The same game can be played by placing
apples in a basin of water and trying to get a
grip on the apple without too much mess!

The Bonfire: The Halloween bonfire is a tradition
to encourage dreams of who your future husband or
wife is going to be. The idea was to drop a
cutting of your hair into the burning embers and
then dream of you future loved one. Halloween was
one of the Celt ‘fire’ celebrations.

Blind Date: Blindfolded local girls would go out
into the fields and pull up the first cabbage they
could find. If their cabbage had a substantial
amount of earth attached to the roots then their
future loved one would have money. Eating the
cabbage would reveal the nature of their future
husband - bitter or sweet!

Another way of finding your future spouse is to
peel an apple in one go. If done successfully the
single apple peel could be dropped on the floor
to reveal the initials of the future-intended.

Anti-Fairy Measures: Fairies and goblins try to
collect as many souls as they can at Halloween but
if they met a person who threw the dust from under
their feet at the Fairy then they would be obliged
to release any souls that they held captive.

Holy water was sometimes anointed on farm animals
to keep them safe during the night. If the animals
were showing signs of ill health on All Hallows
Eve then they would be spat on to try to ward off
any evil spirits.

Happy Halloween from Ireland!

Ah, but I don’t have to do what you want, now, do I? :laughing:

You’ve lost your option on controlling me by claiming you’re dying. We know better now.

And I know you don’t care. You don’t seem to care about what anyone says. Look what you did to Gary and Cynth on that other thread. Talk about biting the hand . . .