and noticed that the tongue is shown laying behind the bottom teeth. I position my tongue over my bottom teeth with the tip resting below my bottom lip about (1/4 to 3/8 inch- 6 to 9mm) in effect giving some support to the flute resting on the outside below my lip (hope this makes sense)
I’ve always done this as it seemed the natural position for the tongue but was never shown were to stick my tongue
Am I wrong ? according to these pics I am where do you put your tongue?
Normally the tongue should lie relaxedly in the floor of the mouth within the lower teeth save when the tip rises for a tongued articulation - you want the maximum cavity in the mouth together with an open throat for optimum tone and a raised, forward tongue position would militate against those desirable things. I’d think it might also entail undesirable tension in tongue and other facial muscles, make tonguing harder (if used) and lip flexibility and and control less/harder. That said, I’ve heard of what you describe before and some folk think it works well for them. It isn’t ‘wrong’ and would fall in a category of acknowledged but unorthodox alternatives. Unless you have an unusual facial structure that necessitates you using your tongue to support your lip, I’d advise you to try a more ‘normal’ tongue position for a while to see if once used to it you find it advantageous, but if not, revert to what you find works well enough. Just casual experimentation may help you evaluate your options, but if you are very accustomed to a particular technique you can’t fairly test an alternative without working at it a bit.
I use this same tongue position (i.e. tongue forward). I am also a trumpet player and was “talked into” trying Jerry Callet’s “tongue controlled embouchure” some years back - at the time I didn’t play flute. I thought it funny at the time that Jerry said he had success with flute players using the same technique! When I took up flute some 2 1/2 years ago, I used the same embouchure and it worked - also allowed me to be consistent across instruments. In fact, in past years, I couldn’t get a good sound out of the flute (I DID try off and on). The tongue forward allows me to focus my airstream.
I wouldn’t recommend this to everyone, but if you’re already there, well…
If you want to sound exactly like someone in particular, try to emulate exactly what they do. Otherwise, not to worry.
I’m one who values expression over technical prowess, and most of my musical heroes had quirky approaches to their instruments. Just try not to get hurt.
I’m inclined to think that, if you’re a genius, then be as quirky as you like, in technical matters. If you’re not a genius, then it’s probably best to do the orthodox thing. It’s generally orthodox because it’s best.
@JohnB, bear in mind the pictures and advice you were looking at were for a Moyse, “Romantic French” type of sound. Right out of the box, to achieve the much admired ‘Hard dark tone’ of ITM you would need to make some adjustments. You would also have to take in to account the differing chimney height of the typical wooden simple system flute from that of a modern Boehm style cut embouchure. In general you would direct your airstream more down the chimney than you would with the modern cut embouchure.
Embouchure ideally is taught up close and in person. You would be well served by getting together with someone whose tone you admire and get some tips.
My tongue can either be resting in the position that Jem describes, on the floor behind the teeth, or, more often, floats in the middle. The goal is to be quick and noiseless. (Any chiff sound that you desire comes more from the attack point than where the tongue is at rest.) Some students have had a problem with placement either because of a somewhat lazy tongue or the language they speak. If no whistle noises or mushy tonguing occurs, then I tend to leave it alone. But most often it has caused some noise. There are many in the classical field, more interested in nuances, that fuss with the position to attain colors and also some pitch correction. I have definitely used the tongue position for color. If I want a more ee/uu combination it’s closer to my lips, sort of flattened. But generally, floating in the middle is where I have it most times, pretty free in there ready to go. However, if I were to use a gutteral approach to tonguing, as many in the trad scene do so very successfully and I do in my work on occasion as well, my tongue lands on the floor against the teeth, just as Jem describes.
If it is natural for you because of the way you speak or you have a shorter tongue attachment, and you are stable and happy with your tone, you shouldn’t alter what already works.
(In my class in Manchester on Aug 23 (now being held at RCM) I will be touching upon tongue placement as it effects the tone. Mostly, however, I will work with the musculature of the lips and surrounding muscles and direction of air and placement on the embouchure hole. There’s a listing of topics to be covered, etc, on the Flute Forum.)
