Cocus saplings? I have some charcoal in my back yard, in case anyone wants to make a diamond ring. I’m neither a botanist nor a flute-maker, but I’m pretty sure that cocus suitable for building music instruments comes from very old trees. Perhaps someone could confirm this?
Meanwhile, I’ve seen some billets of wood that were sold as cocus, and may indeed have been cocus, but which was nowhere near as dense as the good stuff (if memory serves, it was from Jamaica, from old-growth trees - not a ringing endorsement for alternative sources of cocus). The point is, the resource is not being replaced in nature, and my guess is that the landscaping elements outside the local putt-putt are not growing under ideal conditions to produce instrument-grade cocus timber. Blackwood, on the other hand, is the subject of efforts to produce a renewable harvest, but that’s another topic.
Hardening wood by heat is an old, very old, process, and also darkens the wood. As my question, could “fume” refer to that process? If so, then flutemakers likely did fume, as perhaps a harder flute could be a more responsive flute.
Yeah, OK, that may very well be. I balk at your calling the timber nearly extinct when I can go to my local nursery and buy one.
How do you know the blackwood your flute’s made out of came from a renewable source?
I should probably put my money where my mouth is and buy one and keep it on the porch. Actually, that would be nice.
I don’t mean to be facetious about the environment, actually. Cocus is probably a weird case because the biggest range for the timber was/is Cuba, but of course we here in the US can’t get Cuban goods because if we bought Cuban stuff then the dirty commie Russians would do something horrible to us. So I don’t know much about whether or not the cocus being harvested now is being replanted (I think it also comes from Jamaica and maybe PR). I could find precious little on the internet about commercial cocus (other than its use in landscaping).
So, point taken, even though the coal-diamond comment was kind of snotty when your original argument is that the species is nearly extinct.
Nope, I don’t think that is proper terminology. Tips of lances were hardened in a flame. There is high temperature hardening (to remove moisture), and to harden, say, adhesives used in plywood products. The fuming being discussed is definitely a process for coloring and/or protecting the wood. Ammonia or Nitric Acid are the usual compounds used. I provided a couple of links on the Flutemakers List, where the topic is being discussed. I repeat them here.
Right. Unavailability in flute-grade form is one thing,
becoming extinct may be another. Of course if it’s
vanishing there won’t be much left suitable for flutes,
but the reverse may not be true.
The Cocuswood that I have is from Jamaica, it is still avaliable, but pricey and hard to come by. The wood is a dream to work with, it is a very fine grained wood, that is almost matallic when struck. It is brittle though, and has less oil in it then Blackwood.
The fuming was for staining boxwood, and nitric acid was used. I think they used to fume the boxwood on the violin pegs. They also used to stain Boxwood to look like cocuswood (the poormans flute)
About the charcoal bit…trying to use humor to make a point. Not too sure what’s wrong with that. Some of us consider it a way of life. Life’s too bloody serious as it is, without going looking for slights. What’s snotty about analogy?
RS argued that we should think twice before buying a
cocus flute–because cocus is becoming extinct.
That appears innacurate. It isn’t becoming extinct.
When this was pointed out there was a shift, with
some irony, to the claim that the stuff that’s left,
even if it’s plentiful, isn’t fit for flutes.
This may well be true but it doesn’t support the claim
that cocus is going extinct.
Also it isn’t clear how it supports the claim that
we should think twice before buying a cocus flute.
Why not? Because there isn’t much instrument
grade cocus left (although the species isn’t going
extinct)? If that’s so, why not make the good stuff that’s
left into flutes?
While I agree that most people don’t push their flutes and their playing to the limit of eithers capacity or abilities, I don’t think you need to be a pro level fluter to hear and appreciate the difference between the various woods used for flutes, so I don’t agree that it is a performance issue.
There may be a slight tonal difference between woods, and it doesn’t make a whole lot of difference in performance when you are playing, is how I see it. It is more of a personal choice-if you hear and appreciate the difference, then that’s all that really matters, aside from whether woods are endangered-if that is the case, which is an entirely different matter.
Edited to add: Though, in performance, such as a noisy session, you may be able to hear yourself a little better with Cocus-from what I understand it’s a little brighter in tone.
I won’t say who it is. But a year or so ago I was in the company of a flute player who also makes excellent flutes. He closed his eyes and was given one of two flutes to play- one was made with blackwood and one was made with cocus. Other than the difference in the wood they were identical. The quality of this maker’s flutes is very consistent.
He was asked, over the course of about five minutes, to determine which flute was which when they were handed to him. He played each about five times. We were both very surprised that he couldn’t tell the difference in the sound. He was right about half the time. This doesn’t mean that there wasn’t a difference. Just that he couldn’t tell with marked consistency, in that bright room, on that particular day, the difference in the sound of blackwood v. cocus with those particular flutes.
On the other hand once when I’d been playing 3 years I tried John Skelton’s cocus olwell and he my blackwood one. His had noticeably more mid-range overtones. Of course there are still plenty of variables there but the purpose was for me to hear the differences.
Well, no two flutes are totally alike. The differences you heard could be caused by a minute variation in manufacture rather than differences caused by the different wood. To attribute the perceived overtones to the wood might not be accurate.
He also might be more used to getting those sounds from his flute rather than from your flute. The embouchure holes might be cut slightly differently.
Finally- Paul McGrattan (and Rockstro as well) talks about how when he used to work with Hammy they’d send six flutes off to the Cork music school. Half would go to experienced players and half to new players. When the flutes came back to Hammy the flutes played by accomplished players sounded better than the ones played by the beginners. They were in better tune!
Not that you’re a beginner Lesl, but Skelton is a very accomplished player. According to McGrattan, the flutes played by accomplished players develop unexplained differences from the flutes played by beginners.
It’s all anecdotal anyways, right? A good flute is a good flute regardless of design or material.
