Off the shelf

Uilleann Pipes
1

I think this thread has been mentioned in the past, but I would like to add my own experiences about the so called ready to play off the shelf pipes from musical stores, yet again I have witnessed this.

I was approached by one of the many retail stores out there asking me, would I be interested in supplying them with a range of instruments.

I asked them if I was to supply them with instruments and being so far away, do they have anyone in store that plays or understands the instruments, an in house expert who could advise the customer on this product.

They said that’s no problem we can get them to contact you if anything major needs doing, reeds imediately came to mind, I have had several poeple contact and visit me with home and forien goods which never worked from when they left this kind of shop.

I think we all know which items we are talking about here, how many are going to send them back to Pakistan for repairs, they don’t and the pipes end up on the wall as a talking point.

I believe that any shop selling a musical instrument on behalf of the manufacturer, should at least have someone in house who can play that instrument, or how are they going to demonstrate it to the customer on the day, all too often saying here it is, give us the money, and goodbye.

What say you all, have you been in this situation, tell us your story, so others will be protected.

Davy.

2

Davy,
Buying pipes from a store isn’t the problem. It’s buying inferior pipes from a store that makes it a problem.

3

I think you make a great point, Davy.

Selling your pipes through an “outlet store,”
far away from your ability to supervise,
means your reputation is at stake,
and it depends on someone knowing
how to make even a good set sound good.
(they always needs professional adjustment anyway)


Otherwise, the sales person at the “outlet”
would not be qualified, or able,
to detemine if the the Bagpipeworks pipes were best,
the Pakistani pipes, or the recontructed Pakistani pipes.
It could very well be that the reconstructed pipes
were the better sounding, and a better deal
than some custom sets I’ve seen avalible.

Personally, I would never sell through an “outlet”
if I wanted to increase business awareness.
Your reputation could risk being damaged
more than enhanced. These “outlets” are always
on the move…looking for someone new,
probably because the last manufacturer
came to realize it wasn’t in his best interest
to continue supplying them. That’s my opinion.

4

well, now that depends. If you know your pipes are in good working order when they leave your shop, and especially if your chanters are interchangeable enuff for you to reed them without having them present, then you might be okay.

As I posted in another message, I recently purchased a rebuilt pakistani full set that works great, and I’m very happy with. Now, tim didn’t just buy pakistani pipes and work on them, he’s been dealing with these same people for quite some time and has been helping them improve their product, and still they were unplayable when he got them.

especially for a beginner, a pleasant sounding, working set (that didn’t require $4,000+ or years on a waiting list) would please them wonderfully. So long as you’re confident in your product’s ability to work without assistance or instruction from the shop I say go for it, otherwise, Lorenzo’s warning is exactly correct.

5

Antaine… do you play these pipes or do you have them hanging on a wall?

No disrespect but, really!?!!?

Patrick.

6

..

7

Consider this:

Bruce Childress is a highly respected full-time pipemaker who currently has a 2+ year wait for new orders. Song of The Sea places orders with Childress well in advance so they have new sets available roughly every six months. These pipes are the made with the same materials and quality workmanship BC is known for.

Other than a reduced wait… what’s the difference?

8

As far as I’m concerned that’s grand Tony, it’s the other ones I’d be wary of.

9

Tony,

The difference is Song of the Sea is owned and operated by people who know and play traditional music (I think Eddie even plays the pipes).
They are a far cry from the catalog-type outlets that will happily sell any sort of junk that comes along. They are (unfortunately) the exception rather than the rule.

Larry Dunn

10

Agreed Larry…
Song of the Sea is the exception. Another one is Artichoke Music selling Brad Angus pipes.

Davy is making ‘entry level’ chanters that could easily be sold at specialty music shops. The way I see it… if vendors have good products to sell, they would have enough reason to stop selling the inferior ones. The after sale service/support would be with the pipemaker as if the customer came to them from the beginning.

Finally, there is a solution to a problem.

11

I remember back around 1982 , I went to a music store and asked If they had tin wistles , the reply was , we don’t sell toy instruments . lol . Then two years later , I auditioned at a music school in philadelphia on the tin wistle , and got in the music program .
A new piper who has not had any experience with the uilleann pipes may buy a junk set . That does not mean that it is up to the better pipemakers to solve there problem for them by bending over backwards to produce theperfect beginner set , with perfect reeds .
I see Davey Stephensons website and I see a full range of pipes offered in various pitches . I think if that sort of craftmanship were available here in the united states folks would have a better standard to look towards .
The demand for pipes has come to a point where the market will fill the need for a medium grade set that works well and suitable reeds are supplied by the music shops who sell pipes , or the shops look bad .
I went to buy a wistle the other day , and the guy said , hey , dont test that wistle , it is ment to be sold . lol .
tok .

12

This reply is to tony . I Personally would not agree that D . Sthephensons work is quite what you are saying . I think it is a bit well above that .
tok . , and thats what makes it so easy " , aeasy " , to reed .
tok . :slight_smile: . :slight_smile: .

13

To date myself, and quote a famous commercial “Where’s the beef!?”

…in other words, who makes the money?

Say pipemaker X gets a deal with an outlet. The pipemaker sells his widget pipes for $1000. The store then marks them up CONSIDERABLY to make a profit…why wouldn’t the customer go directly to the source and save himself/herself the market costs. The other option…Piper USUALLY charges $1000 for widget pipes..but he makes a deal with the outlet anb sells them for $800…the outlet STILL marks up the price to $1200-1500. BOTH the customer AND the maker are getting screwed. What does the outlet have to do to earn this money? NOTHING. At least…in relation to the work the pipemaker has put in…

…as I often tell my high school students…follow the money trail..

14

tok, I understand Davy’s point not to sell to a shop that isn’t ‘qualified’ to offer full service. MOST specialized instrument makers are like this.

Look at the situation from a different angle. Let’s say you’re the store owner and you can easily get ‘no-name’ pipes but you don’t want to sell them anymore because of too many customer complaints. You’ve contacted a reputable maker and he won’t sell to you because you don’t meet his criteria.

There is a need for good quality entry-level pipes but no maker wants to risk his/her reputation for poorly setup retailers.

What would you do ???

15

Davey… follow the money trail. If you’re a retailer and you offer well made pipes with little markup and you turn the customers over to the pipemaker for service (as if they had placed the order with the pipemaker anyway) then you’re merely an agent, and if that’s your agreement with the pipemaker, your job is done.

Something needs to change. If Davy (or any pipemaker) wants to be able to reduce the consumer questions (problems, complaints) and still be able to sell pipes in a retail shop and he’s concerned about the prices you’re charging, then some marketing must take place.

What’s next?

Nice packaging, brief history of piping complete with color pictures instruction booklet, tutorial tape or CD, song booklet, price list for spares and upgrades available direct from the manufactuter??
Any other instrument manufacturer would do this… why should pipes be different?

So who gets the beef? it goes back to the pipemaker and not the store. So… if the pipemaker doesn’t want to go through the trouble of marketing his product for retail sales, then it’s status quo and he builds one-at-a-time by hand and knows every customer by their first name.

The money that would have been spent on marketing now goes back into the product and at the end of the day the pipemaker would probably end up with the same money.

16

Dear Pipers

It was the Pakistani pipes that I was reffering to earlier, being sold from any retail outlet, what I can’t understand is, these pipes are being sold along side the good stuff by Bruce and others and the shop keepers know this to be true, so why sell the bad stuff, because they are chasing the money plain and simple.

If these shops really cared about the industry, the customer satisfaction, why on earth try and undermine the good stuff by selling total crap, I know these pipes have been re-vamped by some makers but, whats the point, its,

like buying a standard car and bolting on all the goodies to make it sound like a much faster car, you still have the standard version and a dream or vision of what the real thing should sound like.

How many more beginners are going to spend their hard earned cash on a set of inferior pipes and find out they cannot play the dam things, all their money has gone, they will not be able to afford another set for quite a while until they either save up or so or sell on the crap set in order to recoup some of their money.

This is just where the unfortunate second time buyer of that crap set is going to be when he too finds out that they don’t work, yes he can give it to someone and have it altered etc, by the time they have paid that person the extra money it might well come to the same price as the good instrument sitting next to it, its a big circle and its up to us to stop the rot, we are all in the industry together, makers of pipes reeds etc.

I value all that has been said on this thread and now have a clearer view to what the masses are thinking ref marketting etc, but I would still rather not have my stuff being sold along side the crap stuff, really though you should have seen the dissapointment on the guys face when I advised him to take them back for a refund, thats OK but the gaurantee had run out, he had been struggling with the set for months all he wanted to do was to start playing, he gave up I think.

Davy. :smiley:

17

I understand and agree with many of the points being made…however. I think that too often we assume that UP’s are just like any other instrument..guitar, viola etc. They’re not. Nor do I* think they ever will be. And as far as the customer/maker relationship. My pipes are like my children to me…I WANT to know the people that are playing them. And be able to provide any and all support necessary.

This comes from the perspective of a a one-time copier repair man. I was CONSTANTLY reaping the rewards from the broken promises of salepeople. They sow the dream, we reap the nightmare. I accept that my post may have seemed an attack on marketers or the business world in general. I simply don’t think that a relationship between an outlet and the UP maker is a preferential one. Again…simply my opinions, I’ve been known to be wrong before! :roll:

DB

18

So what do you do?
Piping is on the rise. That means more and more low quality (actually it’s no so much the quality, it’s the design) poorly designed pipes will be sold… probably higher numbers than well made pipes.

Question to Davy and Davey…
do you hold tight and say ‘tradition’ I’ll only sell direct and let the retailers buy from companies and importers who continue to market one octave plastic reeded practice sets (with pictures of smiling pipers on the cover of the box) to a bunch of wannabe pipers?

Is there a solution?
Certainly I don’t know. But I predict guys like Patrick Murray http://www.thepiperscut.com/ will have their hands full making entry level practice sets.

19

Boy I don’t know Tony…what DO you do?
Me? Well yes, I WILL say “tradition”. Personally I don’t want to attach MY name to something sold to a stranger…not knowing what s/he’s been told or promised etc. and unable to support that product…

I guess only time will tell. For me? Well…I’ll just keep making pipes because it gives me purpose and great joy. :smiley:

…edited for this comment…

Actually, I was thinking about this over the weekend as I just sent off a practice set. Maybe there will be a division in the market…niches so to speak. People like Patrick, who put out quality practice sets for a fair introductory price. And those that ONLY produce “entire” instruments. I’ve spoken with other makers who have long said they’d rather produce entire sets rather than components. Some makers HATE making full sets, some HATE making just practice sets. It DOES make sense to operate that way. What other artist produces art in increments? (pipemakers ARE artists, in my opinion) I can just see it..“and here is a Michaelangelo 1/2 painting…it was later upgraded to a full painting by Picasso…” :laughing:

DB

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:slight_smile: