I realized when I was adding a second post to Flyingcursor’s thread concerning CDs released by board members, that I was in danger of hi-jacking the thread… And yet, I feel the need to make a comment. I am not trying to be controversial…It is not my way…I have thought about this for quite some time:
I find a phenomenon concerning C&F members’ CD announcements on the board to be disconcerting - and disappointing. The announcements, which are few in number, tend to be relatively ignored by most board members. There are a very few polite rejoinders, but for the most part, the announcements are simply left to make their way down the page and off into obscurity. The interest and supportive discussion that could result from such threads never develop.
Convential wisdom would dictate that interest would be great in the creations of people with whom we communicate, many times - daily. And yet, Cds by ‘famous’ groups whose members we may never speak with are discussed, commented on, and suggestions are made concerning their purchase…
I find it curious and disquieting that we seem to treat our own in such a disengenious manner…
Actually, I think Byll perhaps meant what he said and said what he meant in that we express some degree of interest in our fellow Board members daily, making blithe statements about one another and expressions of sorrow or joy as various occasions may arise; yet, when Board members notify us of accomplishments in the very field of endeavor that brought us together, we feign interest, but don’t really act interested. We can, though, run together endless pages on who’s a cutie pie.
A bit of insincerety there, eh? Insincerety is natural, albeit unfortunate, to a degree in these internet communications.
I think Byll was bemoaning lost opportunities for meaningful discussion. Much of what we talk about on Board is heartfelt, interesting and helpful, and fun, as well as just to pass time and dabble.
Not trying to interpret for you Byll, just saying what I take from your statements.
Would you really prefer that I discuss, comment on, and make suggestions regarding the purchase of the C&F member’s CDs? I am just double-checking because in the past I have gotten in trouble for doing just that (well, for dropping hints that could be construed in that vein, to be exact).
On the semantic level: It would strike me as disingenuous to say things that I didn’t really believe.
Mike: Disinterested means “neutral, impartial, or free of bias.” Uninterested means “having or showing no interest, indifferent.” There is a trend to use disinterested in the sense of “not interested,” but it should be resisted.
You can say that again. I have stepped into that myself. Lolly even asked myself and Bloomfield to refrain from posting comments, which we dutifully did. I did post a few but thought the better of it each time and deleted them again. Is there really anything an honest comment can add to what is obvious at first hearing of some recordings?
Steve already hinted at it and as some off board commentator said last week ‘isn’t the silence emabarrassingly deafening?’.
Is there really anything an honest comment can add to what is obvious at first hearing of some recordings?
Steve already hinted at it and as some off board commentator said last week ‘isn’t the silence emabarrassingly deafening?’.
I agree with Peter. If you don’t like a cd of a board member, what can you say to them? Very nice, or I’ll have to spend more time with it and get back to you, or good luck on your next cd? If you interact with this board member on a regular basis, it’s not easy to say, I don’t like it, without being hurtful.
I have given my opinion about cds that weren’t as yet finished, because that’s when your opinion really counts, if a person really wants to know. But after it’s done, all you can say is I like it , or I don’t, and good for you!
Professional cds are discussed very much, and promoted because they are very well done. If a member’s cd is that good, I believe there will be enough interest to say so.
…and that’s the heart of the matter. Giving your opinion, or critique, on a professional recording by a famous group/individual is viewed as fair game. The idea that you will never speak with the person could be the shield, or that you view their professional status as basis for your right to speak your mind. Dealing with a fellow member here is another matter all together. As long as your comments are positive, supportive and nice, all’s well. A critical comment directed at member which would easily be applied to a pro is viewed as cannibalism. Thread upon thread containing comments on a fellow member’s playing has been met with circling the wagons and flame rallies. You can’t force people to say things they don’t feel (truly disingenuous) and shouldn’t begrudge them saying what they do. If someone has supportive comments to make, they will voice them. If not, history here has shown that it’s best to keep it under your hat. The odd thing is supportive also means helpful. Telling someone what they did wrong, how they could do better and what needs more work isn’t helpful? I’ve toyed with the idea of a CD myself and believe me, I’d never announce it here. Not because of fear of critique, but lack of it.
If you put a CD out for commercial release you have become a small part of the music industry. You might get ignored. You might get praised. You might get insulted. Nobody can or should ask for reviews that are only favourable.
This is common to many areas of life. I pay the bills by doing philosophy. Everybody in that profession accepts that it is the price of entry that people will comment frankly about your work to your face. It is considered legitimate to say anything you can back up with argument, however harsh. In public meetings your are expected to produce your toughest criticisms. We simply have to learn to cope, both with being criticised and with being frank when for personal reasons we would rather not be. Criticisng students is anther matter. Here the accepted view is that anybody really trying should be encouraged. But each convention has its rationale and the profession would not progress without the criticism.
Incidentally, I’ve posted reviews of ITM CDs from fairly obscure sources on the ITM board only to see them disappear without comment. I don’t assume that silence means anything in particular. Perhaps nobody else had heard the CD. Perhaps not.
The problem is Wombat that most of these CDs aren’t really ‘commercial’ CDs in the old sense of the world, they are private recordings marketed in a limited way through Ren Faires and CD baby etc. No producer is usually involved or someone else who sits behind the control to tell the whistleplayer that in msot cases attempt are made to tune the whsitle to the backing or vice versa before recording starts, that sort of simple and very obvious things.
I know I have been outspoken about some members’ playing here but I have only spoken when members were ‘asking’ for comment by presenting their playing as a means of teaching or some other service t othe rest of us. And what flak that was given out for that :roll:
As I said I was tempted in some cases to comment on CDs advertised here but I decided anyone could hear for themselves what I was going to comment on so why create another war of words that goes on for 20 pages or so?
Oh sure, I knew that’s what you and others meant, Peter. My point was that once you promote a CD as ‘for sale’ it is fair game for review by whatever standards the reviewer usually employs. You can’t ‘release’ a CD and then run and hide.
Of course, the kind of CD I had in mind as one that got no comment was a nice one that came my way of amateurs from the Blasket Islands. I just mentioned that to point out that not every CD that fails to attract comment is by a member here. Pure drop ITM, I think, but not likely to interest more than a few. Just captures the last of a style that will soon be dead I think. A very different kettle of fish from amateur recordings made away from the source though.
Byll,
there is nothing curious, disquieting or disingenuous about the
perceived lack of interest in new CD’s. It is simply out of respect for the
feelings of others that people decide not to post comments.
Remember this quote from Thumper:
“If you can’t say something nice… don’t say nothing at all.”
If you release a CD and wish to announce it here, great. If you want feedback, ask for it but be prepared for both positive comments and criticism. This is a friendly board but certainly not a touchy-feely type place (announce it on Gaelic Crossings if warm and fuzzy compliments are all you can handle ). I see no need to post insincere compliments. People post tunes to Clips & Snips all the time with few or no comments posted on the board unless the person submitting the tune actually requests feedback–and even then I think there’s a hesitation to post criticism. Even if the person submitting the clip or releasing the CD appreciates constructive criticism, others on the board immediately dive in to “defend” them. Better to just keep your comments to yourself and let it go by.
I think that’s right. There is also the factor that the purpose of a message board like the chiffboard is to give information and advice and when somebody is looking for guidance, I don’t think it’s fair to pretend that something is good when it isn’t (for the sake of the player who has chosen to put his or her stuff out there) and thereby to deny those looking for help the chance of developing the ability to distinguish and appreciate.
But there is that “you can’t say anything negative at all” school of thought, and I remember distinctly someone getting really worried about people expressing dislike for Enya’s music, because “she might read this one day.”
). I see no need to post insincere compliments. People post tunes to Clips & Snips all the time with few or no comments posted on the board unless the person submitting the tune actually requests feedback–and even then I think there’s a hesitation to post criticism. Even if the person submitting the clip or releasing the CD appreciates constructive criticism, others on the board immediately dive in to “defend” them. Better to just keep your comments to yourself and let it go by.