Looking for critiques on my flute playing

Irish Flute
1

Learning by yourself has disadvantages in my opinion… the biggest one being the lack of a teacher who constantly pushes you, reminds you of your weaknesses and challanges you to correct them. I’ve got good buddies like Eld and Az amoung others who make a few comments once in a while but I’m looking for a few more opinions and perspectives. So, I would appreciated any comments and critiques, especially those that are more “negative” in general. If you hear something wrong or that you don’t like, post it. And if you really know your stuff advice is always welcome! The tune is Bill Bollin’s jig and there is a bit of the jig the cow that ate the blanket but my recording program timed out and I was too lazy to redo it or edit it out. I’m after good hard critisism here so don’t hold back.

http://tinwhistletunes.com/clipssnip/Audio/5-04/billcollinsMurphyS.mp3

And for those of you who car about such things, the flute is a hamilton keyless D.

And on another note… I struggle most with breathing or phrasing rather. The challenge of the flute is changing the weakness of the instrument (having to take breaths) into a strength of the instrument (having breaths add to the rhythm and energy of the tune instead of detracking) There are ways of breathing and places to breath out there that just add so much to the music.. I’m really interested in mastering this and figuring it all out. I don’t care for people who hide breaths on the flute and that’s not what I’m after. I know this doesn’t sound like a question but it is and I was wondering if any of you know a way to approach phrases and tunes to find these breaths and make the most out of them. And/or if you could recomment good OLD STYLED IE premolloy influence flute players that are extremely good at changing the flute’s weakness into it’s strength so I could check them out if I haven’t already. And in case you’re wondering John Mckenna is my current flute player.

It’s late and I’m not making any sense… so I should stop typing now. Hopefully at least a few of you will comment and remember don’t worry about sounding too harsh.

2

I make these comments as a listener and lover of flute music.
I play mostly my own compositions so without practising
I couldn’t appraoch your performance of ITM even 20%.

I have a Matt Molloy tape I keep in the car
and listen to it from time to time and enjoy.
My main negative criticism of his playing is that
there aren’t enough silences.
I don’t mean long nights of silence.
Just a slip of it here and there in the right places,
almost to throw the jig out of time
with a bit of extra speed as catch up to compensate.

This teasing of silence within the rhythm of a piece
will bring a freedom and fresh excitement to the music.

I feel that this what is lacking in Matt Molloy’s and your fluting.
It is also somewaht meagre in the bansuri playing
of Hariprasad Chaurasia compared to someone like
Pannalal Ghosh.

3

Well, Murphy, I will add a meaningless “I feel your pain” here.

At least you’re brave enough to “ask for” a critique ~ I will imagine some here are gonna jump all over that!!!

As for Breathing, I struggle with that as well ~ I’m still at the point where I just grab a giant breath wherever… and I hate that.

Mary

4

Generally, everything that affects the rythm is looked upon as a bad thing in ITM. The tunes we play are normally dance tunes, and I would think a silence that spands over a strong pulse beat and with a bit more speed after to catch up would feel and sound strange and “off” to me. A thumb rule is to never stop for air where you would tap your foot or atleast not on the first or third beats (of four) in a reel. Most people think of rythm and pulse as very important things in ITM. For example most ornamentations we have are used to emphasise rythm.

Murphy: I think your playing is very good but you might want to add some more articulations in form of cuts and strikes in the beginning of notes that start on a strong beat to add a stronger feel of rythm. Generally, working on cuts and strikes (not just to sepparate two notes of the same pitch but also to articulate the beginning of a note on a new pitch) is a good way to make your playing sound more “full” and varriated.
It’s very difficult to hear how your tone really is from a recorded snipp, so I can’t really comment on this.

Hope this will help a bit.

5

I wish I played that well. Sounds fine to me.
This may not be so helpful, but I would suggest
you just go on playing. What flute are you using, by the way?
Oh yes, it’s a Hamilton. Thanks for the recording, Jim

6

Kudos to you! I think you play very well. I doubt there are many people on this list who play as well. Your breathing is good, your rhythm is solid, you have control of your phrasing and ornamentation. You are playing well within your comfort zone, which is perhaps the most important thing of all.
I think it would be helpful to think of your abdomen as you play. Keep your stomach tight even as you blow and breath. This might put a “pulse” into your playing that will give you a better sense of the beat. The northern players do this very well. Harry Bradley (and Marcas o Murchu) would be well worth listening to in this regard.
I offer one personal critique, and I do so respecting your expertise. My own feeling is that your tone is somwhat breathy. I realise that McKenna, whom you admire, is breathy as well, as are many of the old puffers. Personally I prefer a harder, purer tone, which I feel is harder to achieve with a Hammy flute (at least it is for me), but once achieved is a marvel of power. The tendency on a Hammy is to overblow, which results in the breathiness. Playing with less force may result in a purer tone. Many of the old guys either smoked or played in smoky, noisy pubs and had flutes that required them to play harder in order to overcome their lung disease and to hear themselves.
Good luck and keep tooting! You’re on the right track.

7

I told ya :roll:

8

Well played!

Most of the criticisms I would have revolve around things you could be doing with the tune but aren’t; this tune cries out for the occasional breath pulse, for instance, or a few well-placed off-beat accents. Something to break it up a bit and give the ear a contrast. Even varying the jig rhythm from straight to a bit more swing from figure to figure would help.

Your rhythm is solid–you are better than I am on keeping the beat steady, I could almost envy you that. Tone, fingering, rolls, all come across very solid. You are very much in control of the flute and it shows.

Someone wrote you sounded very comfortable in your playing; I’d agree, and say maybe a bit too much. Do something to add a bit of fire and with everything else you’re doing right, you’ll really bring smiles and start feet to tapping.

Really nice job; well done. :slight_smile:

–James

9

Jack, you’re very impressive, beside all the joking we had in Seattle, I think you’re a deligh to listen to. I’m personnally not very good at giving advice, first of all I’ve got so much to learn that giving advice would make me feel pretentious, and second of all, I can only really know what’s wrong with music if I sit down and don’t enjoy listening to it.

I really like your style, phrasing, etc. As Steve would comment on my playing, you lack some “self-confidence” that give the impression that the music has control over you, and not the other way around. I think the lack of variation is a problem, you will always roll the same note in the first part, what is it, the high “A” I think, etc, as if you were scared of letting loose and trying new things and lifting the tune a little. You will also breathe mostly at the same spots, I really like sometimes when there’s no pause between the last note of a phrase and the first note of the next phrase, it gives a continuous feeling but involves breathing at different spots (or you might die of a heart attack).

Now, don’t go overboard with some random variations will ya? :wink:

PS: Oh, and my concertina is comin’, next time I’ll be breaking your ears!

10

Come on, Jack! That’s great playing! You’re always down on yourself.

I think the comments you’ve been given are good, particularly David’s as to how you’re playing within your reach, so to speak. It’s much easier to make a comment on a tune you can play, rather than if you’d tried to be all impressive and play something really hard (or NOT play something really hard, if you know what I mean). And Az’s point is also well-taken, in that you could vary the repeats a little differently.

I’d suggest that you try thinking of LINE when you play these tunes. Meaning, think of the phrases as more cohesive units. You’re doing a good job of trying to get a geezer-esque pre-Molloy (to use your phrase) sound, I think, but abdominal support and pulsing will help. This is one of the keys to playing a wind instrument (including voice) well, and it’s not like it’s going to happen overnight. The other thing is that you might have to work out on the flute in a Molloy-ish kind of fashion to get the idea: try playing the jig more legato, then add breath pulses and articulation. That’s kind of what I mean by “line.”

Also, you do sound a little like you’re holding back. Let it go, Jack-o. :slight_smile:

Stuart

11

I too, think you sound great - much better than I, so I’m loathe to offer much. Phrasing suits the tunes well, and tone is so subjective (breathy vs. pure), that’s a matter of opinion - also sounds Jack Cohen-esque with some tasteful extra ornamentation thrown in for good measure. Sounds just like the sound you’re trying to emulate.

To offer some contrast to Stuart’s advice - one tip I got at my last lesson was to play a tune with NO ornamentation at all. Just the bare bones of the melody. This can make it easier both to see new, different places to add ornaments for variation and also to better recognize different ‘versions’ of the same tunes.

Cheers,

  • Ryan
12

Thanks guys, I really appreciate all these, especially the stuff on diaphram support and all that. Something that I’ve kinda just let my body do what seems natural and comfortable instead of really pushing myself. Yeah, marcus and Harry are very good northern players but I haven’t listened to them in a while cause their cds were stolen out of my car and I’ve yet to replace them.

I was hoping to get to chicago this summer to study a bit with the great Kevin Henry but some finacial matters have come up and money isn’t as free as it was… but I still might go. He could really help me with my pulse and phrasing. Anyways, thanks for all this guys and I’ll try to keep you comments in mind.

Hehe Az, I heard about you and Steve and your bet… Can’t wait to here you guys on your respective boxes!

13

Jack, IMHO one of the good present-day players for using breath spaces as a rhythmic device is Marcas Ó Murchú. If you can get a listen to his CD Ó Bhéal go Béal, I think you might appreciate his approach; his style isn’t for everybody (dare I say a bit old-fashioned??? I liked it), but his playing made a whole new world open up for me about the possibilites in using breath-spaces for rhythmic accent.

Really, what I mean is creative phrasing, but for me phrasing and rhythm have a close relationship.

…Uh-oh. I now see that Marcas had been mentioned by David, and that you had his CD already at one time, Jack. I’m just getting over a near 5-day run of the plague and my brain feels like wet cotton balls, so don’t mind me. Anyway, I still recommend more listening to him! Good stuff.

14

I think the fact that you put yourself out there on the list says much. Nice rhythm and phrasing. I agree with the comments about using the diaphragm. Get some support under those phrases. You have inspired me to put some of my playing out there as well. Keep an ear out.

Arbo

15

The rhythm isn’t broken at all - this is what I mean about teasing the silence. There are examples of what I am so clumsily trying to express here and I’ll try to cite them if I can if Murphystout is interested.
.
How do you think ornamental flights are fitted in anyway?

I feel that Eldarion’s performance of the Butterfly has it
(even if unwittingly or accidentally) -slip of silence, and I like it.

I had nothing critical to say about MurphyStout’s technique
so I thought I would offer my opinion on musical interpretation.

16

yes, I agree with this:-

this is exactly what I was on about.
People who don’t like me can just ignore me
if peeplj’s comment is more comprehensible and useful to them.

Kind Regards.
:slight_smile:

17

Your playing sounds great to me, Murph. Might I ask how long you’ve been playing?

I’d be interested a little bit of general discussion of off-beat accents. I’ve been learning a couple of Tommy Peoples reels from the second Mairead and Frankie album. The second one has some high notes that are on unaccented notes. The tune just didn’t feel like a reel because of the sort-of natural syncopation from those notes coming out louder than the notes that really needed to be accented.

It seems to me that having a good steady rhythm should be the goal of a dance tune. So is there a rule about putting in off-beat accents? I presume it should be done quite sparingly. (I may be a stick in the mud, but I think one of the things I really like about Frankie Kennedy’s playing is the kind of unwavering nature of it.)

TIA!

18

Talasiga, your posts make sense to me. I think we are using different words to hit around some of the same concepts.

Chas, you are right too. :slight_smile: Playing with a strong steady beat is vital for dance tunes; for most music, really. There are things that can be done off the beat but nothing should ever detract from the beat.

I hope no one took any of my comments wrong–MurphyStout is a fine flute player, and nothing I said was meant to take anything away from the fact that he played a damn fine tune, and played it well.

I could envy him that rock steady beat; he holds a better beat than I do.

–James

19

I’ve been playing now for almost 2 and a half years. Argg so much to still work on!

All this talk has really made me think more of my diaphram support. Kinda a tricky thing to pick up cause it isn’t exaclty obvious to me on what I should be doing cause nothing jumps out at me when I listen to other peoples recordings… Oh well, I’ll figure it out sooner or later but what is my objective?

Oh, I know… I’ll just go read about it in Grey Larson’s book… NOT!

20

I’ll jump in here even though I’m an idiot about flute playing and I’m not expert in Irish music, but I’ve listened to lots of music in many different styles, and I played french horn and other brass instruments for years, so I know a bit about breathing and diaphragm control.

First, even before reading what the others wrote, I had a similar impression – it sounds like you’re trying to make a clean recording with no mistakes, like you’re “working” the tune instead of just letting loose and “playing” it. Maybe that’s because you were recording yourself, at least partly. I do agree your rhythm control is excellent. And I like the breathy sound.

But the tune needs to dance and swoop and breathe. “Diaphragm support” isn’t really the issue I hear…it’s more of a lack of “direction” for how to approach the tune. The ability to “hear” accents, dynamics, ornaments, spaces, etc., while you’re playing, and “allow” them to naturally come through, as if you were just singing the tune. To make the tune yours, how you’d most want to hear it. Techniques are just tools to allow that, they aren’t “the answer” in their own right. Confidently using what techniques you have is FAR more important than having more techniques. So just imagine the tune, or sing it, and try to “feel” where a little PUNCH of air would give the tune a kick…and where a little hesitation or space would allow it to dance…and so forth. Then try to make it happen. This is a very different way of practicing compared to learning tunes or polishing techniques with exercises. This kind of “mastery” is incredibly important when playing with others (especially with only one or two people), so you can respond to what they’re doing…for me, that’s one of the most fulfilling parts about playing music, when two or three people are listening and responding simultaneously, with confidence, taste, and emotion.

I think that ability is what separates a real musician from a beginner or a dabbler. I know very good musicians who can pull it off even on instruments that they have a limited proficiency with, because it’s an issue of taste, restraint, dynamics, and having an intimate understanding of the music, not an issue of technique.

As far as “breath pulsing” and diaphragm control go, I’m not sure what your question is (being an idiot and all). But, to get an accent or “support” a note, I give it a “punch” from my diaphragm, much like you’re tensing up your stomach muscles to allow someone to punch you in the stomach without it hurting. You can ramp it up slowly to get a little crescendo, or give it a quick “punch” to get a bouncy accent, on both the on-beats or offbeats. That’s what it sounds like to me that a lot of the more dynamic, syncopated flute players (the ones I like) do to get those nice little “swoops” and “barks.”