looking for a flute, don't know what to do...

it happened that i can now spend 600 euros, and after one year and a half of constantly playing a not-so-good bamboo flute i feel that i need a new instrument.

the problem is that i’m 18 and i dont have a job, so if i buy now a good quality flute i wont be able to buy a top quality (and maybe keyed) one in the near future.

what i could do is just go with a tipple with lip plate and start collecting money for a keyed olwell (or whatever top quality), so that i dont finish all my money immidiately, or buy something like a keyless copley (maybe blackwood) or similar (but i dont want to wait too much, it should be something that is ready, maybe from a site like irishflutestore or larkinthemorning) and then sell it after a while. what do you think? and in case you suggest the second option, can you indicate what flute i could get?

thanks for the answers and sorry about this topic, i know everybody always asks the same things :smiley:

It sounds to me like you’re really not sure yet what type of flute you are going to want.

While you consider your options, and continue to save money, buying a good Tipple flute might be a great idea. They are an exceptional bargain, and lots of fun to own and play. Maybe in another year or so you’ll know exactly what type of flute will suit you for the long term. Good luck!

you could buy gilles lehart keyless flute. it cost now 600 euros, waiting time one month and he is located in france.later you could add post mounted key 90 euros each.in roma, player luca verzulli posses his flute.i posses also lehart 5 keyed flute. if you have interest pm and i will send to you verzulli mobile number, so you could check lehart flute in live.
marin

you could buy gilles lehart keyless flute. it cost now 600 euros, waiting time one month and he is located in france.later you could add post mounted key 90 euros each.in roma, player luca verzulli posses his flute.i posses also lehart 5 keyed flute. if you have interest pm and i will send to you verzulli mobile number, so you could check lehart flute in live.
marin

Hurry up and buy a flute now. You’re 18 years old. At that age the money would have slipped through my fingers and I would have had nothing at all.

crookedtune you’r right in saying that i’m not shore about what flute I should get, that’s because i never tried any, just the one luca verzulli has (i already have his numer maracirac :stuck_out_tongue: )… mutepointe i will spend most of my money only for a flute, dont worry :smiley:

other answers? :slight_smile:

Came up on another thread recently…check out the flutes by Arie DeKeyser. They’re underrated for value and sound. I think Custy’s Music in Ennis stocks them - www.custysmusic.com - in case you can’t find one closer. Cheers,

Rob

there’s a de keyzer flute on larkinthemorning for 655 dollars… but for a similar price i could get a casey burns or whatever delrin flute, and for not too much more money (1000 dollars or 680 euros) i could get a used hamilton or for about 800 dollars a blackwood copley… i dont think it would be a good choise…

Othannen, talk to “Tirno” (by pm here on C&F) as well - he’s in France too. One of your options is a well chosen French or German fully keyed antique flute - there are good ones in your price range like the one I sold Tirno recently. Such a flute will serve you well until you can afford a fully keyed one by a modern maker, better IMO than getting used to a keyless and then having to learn keyed later.

I haven’t got anything of that kind ready for sale at present (lots to work on, but don’t know how good they’ll be…), but I do still have a Seery keyless Delrin up for grabs on my For Sale thread in your price range.

I’ve only one direct experience of a DeKeyser flute, not very recent and possibly not representative, but it was poor. I agree with your last post if you are going to go down the new-made keyless route.

Afterthought, seeing as you are in Italy. Last year I bought a twelve-key, foot to low B, blackwood Viennese style flute (sometimes called a “Ziegler system”) made by Rampone of Milan. Rick Wilson has part of one of their catalogues on his site. I paid less than £200 for mine. It has a repaired head crack and I had to repad and clean it, but otherwise it was in excellent condition. It is medium size holes but speaks very strongly and is well in tune. Chris Wilkes has played it a couple of times and actually said it was better than my original R&R! Mine was made between 1856 and 1912 when the firm were “Fratelli e Cugino Rampone”, but Rick’s catalogue from the 1920s when the name had changed shows a huge range of similar flutes. They must have manufactured vast quantities of them - and I bet Italy is awash with them. Find a good one and you’re laughing. Find a bunch of them at low prices and I’ll buy them off you! Fancy being my Italian junk shop searcher?

For 600 euro you could come to Ireland
go to Bray and visit Desi Seery and pick your own flute.
Or just call him and order a r&r flute with one key
or order a pratten style with one key and plastic case for it.
I’m very happy with mine
I think they are good enough - Tom Doorley recorded on one his flutes on first albums of Danu, I think Eamon de Barra plays on his flute made in mopane.

mmm jem where and how do you find such instruments? on the web i cant find much about these rampone flutes, and anyway nobody that sell them…

If you’re on a budget, I’d suggest purchasing a new Delrin Copley flute: It’s a top quality flute, at an extremely good price - particularly with the weak U.S. dollar…

Loren

Piggybacking off Rob’s comment, I had the opportunity to meet Alan Doherty this fall and have a few tunes. He spoke very highly of the DeKeyser flutes, so that might be worth checking into.

I hope I haven’t caused a misunderstanding here! I am talking about antique flutes. You won’t as such “find anybody selling them”! There doesn’t seem to be very much info online about Rampone, I know. There are several Rampone flutes in the DC Miller catalogue. As for finding one, I admit I haven’t spotted any more on eBay since I got mine, though my searches may have missed some. I meant really that you would need to start trawling through antique and junk shops in Italy, watching local newspaper small ads and going to auctions. It might be worth investigating online what leading Italian auction houses do in the way of specialist instrument sales too, if only to browse catalogues and see what kind of thing comes up.

I suspect, though this is purely a guess (I’ve never had the good fortune to visit Italy), that there are probably quite a lot of C19th flutes floating around in Italy - they would have been common in town bands and local opera orchestras maybe up until World War 2, but by then at latest would have become redundant. I don’t think the market in such things is very likely to have been as worked out in Italy as it has been in Britain/Ireland and to some extent the U.S., as there is only a negligible interest in ITM and no-one else much wants this kind of flute.

Although Italy has had a strong Folk revival since the 1980s with bands like La Ciapa Rusa and Baraban etc, they have not so far as I know made much use of flute. (Again, I know pretty little about Italian folk music, only bits about bands that have travelled to Britain.) I don’t know how much of a place flutes ever had in indigenous Italian folk traditions. I doubt whether the Italian Folk specialists have dug out nearly all the old flutes like the Brits and Irish have. Since the 1970s the Period Instrument market may well have mined out most of the surviving decent Baroque and Classical period instruments, but Romantic era ones have not been as popular for those specialists, and there were far more made and which survive from the later C19th. Even in Britain, Ireland and the U.S. good old flutes do still come to light from time to time from attics and house clearances, but relatively few are totally new to the modern market. I suspect countries like Italy, Spain, the Balkans and the former Eastern Bloc still have plenty that haven’t seen daylight for half a century or more - lots of the mass-market German variety and other more local things too; who knows, even the odd English one might show up!

It would be necessary to learn where and how to look (as well as what to look for), but I think the chance of finding good things with patience and effort is fairly good.

I’ll try to post some pics of my Rampone F e C on the Pics Sticky soon - there have been partial shots of detail of it on C&F previously, I think on Rob Sharer’s thread about Bb key set-ups. There is also a clip (not a very good recording, though) of it playing on the Clips Sticky - here.

very interesting… i have no idea on how i could find such instruments, but i’ll look around and keep my eyes open :smiley:

so, my options are:
new copley delrin for $359 (from irishflutestore)
used copley blackwood with tuning slide for $749 (from irishflutestore)
used seery delrin for £305 GBP (from jem)
doug tipple with lip plate etc
or an old keyed flute, there’re a lot of them here: http://www.larkcamp.com/oneofakind.html but i wouldn’t know what’s good or bad without your help…

anyway one day i’ll probably sell the one i’ll buy, to get a better one… any comment is welcome :slight_smile:

Thanks for the link in your last post - I hadn’t come across that source before, though I have been on Lark in The Morning’s website…
There are certainly some very nice looking flutes there and I’d say the prices are quite reasonable for retail sales. Within your budget, the Deposee French 8-key or several of the German flutes might make a good introduction to keyed simple system, though they probably wouldn’t ultimately be ideal ITM flutes - but of course without actually playing them you could not be sure of how they would speak or what their intonation would be like - nor can any of us advise you for sure. (I have some similar flutes awaiting attention, as I said before, but can’t say how good they may be or how I may price them pending getting them working…watch this space! ) At least buying from me or Jon C or people like us, you can get some reasonably reliable assessment of the playing qualities of particular examples of this kind of old instrument which you can’t get from shops you cannot visit. It might be worth contacting the Zeckley guy and asking for sound samples of one or two and whether he lets instruments out on approval.

As for finding your own antiques, I’d bet Rome has plenty of antique shops/markets and junk shops? Start by talking to owners of such places (not the very posh, expensive ones with just a few bits of fancy furniture and china), especially if they have any musical instruments at all on display. Tell them what interests you and ask if they ever see such things - show them pictures if you can. Probably junk/antique shops in small provincial towns are a better bet, though - if you can travel, get out into the hills!

As you live in the capital, there are bound to be some large specialist music stores - find the ones that sell big selections of flutes and try to talk to their flute salesperson - they may (don’t count on it) know their stuff on historic instruments and be able to guide you. Ones that specialise in period instruments if there are any such would also be useful. Even violin specialists are worth talking to as they get all sorts of things shown to them/get around the sales etc. (if they are anything like their British counterparts).

I’d presume Italy has its equivalent to Sothebys’ etc.? Find out where and when there are specialist instrument auctions and try to see catalogues or even view the lots on showing day. (You could even bid if you’re happy doing that, but find out the terms and conditions and watch and learn first!!!)

Do Italians have car-boot sales?

It is probably also worthwhile finding out what museums you may be able to visit that have musical instrument collections. Remember to check out educational institutions as well as public museums. They won’t sell you flutes, naturally, but you can get to look at and learn about them and find out what has been available in Italy over time.

I know all this sounds rather daunting, but it is an excellent way to learn even if you don’t end up finding a flute that way! Even if you go straight ahead with buying a flute from the present options, if you find the whole thing at all interesting, it could be useful in future. Who knows what you might find over the years? If you never look, you certainly won’t find anything!

Also remember, (EDIT: ah, yes, you mentioned this… :blush: ) if you do buy an antique and find it doesn’t suit you, either straight away or later on, provided you didn’t get ripped off/make a silly mistake when you bought it, you should be able to sell it for no significant loss or even for a profit when you trade up to a better flute. (Much the same holds true for modern maker flutes too, of course, but you won’t get a keyed one at your price range.)

Another option would be to buy a keyless version (Copley, Hammy, McGee) and have the maker start a keyed body for you. Most makers will give you full or close to full value for your keyless body when you upgrade.

Or, as some have suggested, get a flute from someone that does post mounted keys and just have the keys added later (Burns, Lehart, Reviol).

I’d also agree with Loren that the Delrin Copley is great bang for the buck and when you have enough money for a keyed flute, the delrin one will still be great for back packing , camping etc… or re-sell it for about what you paid.

Doc

Since it was mentioned on this thread above, I’ve now done a new clip on the Rampone flute a propos another current thread, Lord Inchiquin. I think it shows the instrument to reasonable advantage… hope so, anyway.

Othannen, do let us know what you decide/how you get on! Good luck!

I think you can come at session and try some flutes before to look on internet, me, luca and davo all play instruments from different makers!
Rome is the top Italian Irish city “in the world” as we have 3 or 4 sessions a week! :stuck_out_tongue:
…
e poi io sono all’eur quindi…
check your pm

moreover,
I’m selling one my flutes (really not in your range of price…)
Hamilton-8-keys](http://cgi.ebay.it/Hamilton-8-Keys-Wooden-Flute_W0QQitemZ120206446834QQihZ002QQcategoryZ10183QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem%22%3EHamilton-8-keys)
I advise to come to have a look before it leave rome…