Does your left index finger get sore when you are new?
I bought a silver flute and tried to play it, and now my index finger is very sore. Also my partner has gone on a business trip so now I can play my whistle to my heart’s content, so that might be contributing. Is there a repetitive stress problem you can get to your left index finger? It hurts around the lowest joint on my finger.
Yes, I suffered this very problem a couple of years ago,
so badly that I saw two physicians. It hurt in the place
yours does.
The more knowledgeable physician said that the activity
of playing flute/whistle ‘angered’ the tendon.
There was the beginning of tendinitus. It’s an overuse
problem, probably.
If I may say what I was told, and what cannot do any harm,
stop playing for three days, take an anti-inflammatory (eg
ibuprofen) unless you have some intestinal issue
that these exacerbate (follow directions, eat first), ice the finger after playing and warm it in
hotish water before playing.
I found I needed more extention so I fashioned a bopep
of plastic tubing bought at a hardware store, cut off a section
an inch or more long, split it, and placed it over the wooden
flute as a left-hand rest. My cramped left-hand position
was part of the culprit. Of course there are commerical
bopeps for silver flutes; many people need to uncramp
the left hand.
The problem went away slowly over a few months
and now is entirely gone.
Also I found that a curved index was better than a straighter
one (as in piper’s grip), because there was less lifting.
Generally when one runs into repetitive motion trouble
it’s a good idea to review one’s basic position for holding
the flute. Figure out how to relate to the beast in a
more skillful way that doesn’t cause the problem.
Good technique and position are very useful as
a preventative.
Finally I’ve learned that, left to myself, I will play flute
obsessively until I injure myself. The human body cannot
match the willing spirit. There are basic rules for
practice, like stopping every now and then, mixing things
up, stopping when it hurts, etc. The warming up
and icing down may be useful as a regular routine.
Lots of info about this if you search.
Finally if the problem remains a real problem or gets
worse, see a specialist, e.g. a hand surgeon in orthopaedics.
Good ones will not recommend radical intervention.
Be very careful about injections of hyrocortisone
into the tendon in that finger. I’ve been warned by
a very good hand surgeon that they can kill the tendon.
I’ve come upon a very fine fellow at Barnes Jewish
in St. Louis. Also there may be hand therapists
who specialize in advising about these problems.
These aren’t physicians and they have a good deal
of practical know how, if they’re good.
If one plays flute seriously, one has to be careful.
I’ve suffered three different injuries or problems,
all turned out to be manageable, and without
serious intervention. If you’re going to get into
this, learning to play without injury is something
worth doing.
finally a computer key board can create problems, when
added to hand use on flute/whistle. Voice activated
software may be worth looking into. I also learned to
type without using the left index. There were times
when I taped the left index to left middle finger,
so as not to use it.
A post script about technique:
I found that, in playing flute/whistle, it is important
that the fingers that cover holes do no work at all
in holding the instrument (with the possible exception
of R3). The flute needs to be steady with all fingers
raised. This is good technique anyway, one plays better
and faster–but also if left index is steadying the flute
because one’s fundamental grip is imperfect and
the flute unsteady, it can lead to an overuse
problem. This work may not be entirely obvious.
I got into trouble experimenting with a grip
that used the rt thumb pressing on the side of
the flute so that the rt pinky was waggling free.
I wasn’t controlling the flute very well, in fact,
and left index was involved in that work.
I really think that’s asking for trouble.
The grip works for many people, I reckon,
but not for me.
When might we hear a clip of your playing?
We’ve seen a half-million words and 1,600 posts a year- about three million words all told.
You’ve been very free with your advice.
Eager, some might say.
Some of us would like to hear what you sound like.
Nobody will be mean and everybody will be supportive- guaranteed.
If you are talking about me, you can’t hear me play until I receive my flute! I’m only obsessively visiting this forum out of the unbearable anticipation of waiting.
You can hear my one lousy attempt to play Planxty Irwin on the whistle with the link below. As you can tell from this, I am a beginner.
http://www.whistlethis.com/index.php?content=YkdsemRHVnU%3D&utid=T1RjeA%3D%3D
You’ve nothing to be ashamed of here. Your timing is very good and you’ve got a nice sense of the tune and the rhythm. It’ll be great to hear you when you’ve got your (good) flute and your embouchure develops. I think it’s pretty good.
I’d like to hear Mr. Stone, of the three million words.
i went to the doctor once.
i said “doc’ i’m hurtin’ all over”.
“wherever i touch myself i seem to be hurtin’”
“i touch my elbow - i hurt; i touch my knee - i hurt; i touch my head - i hurt”
“what seems to be the problem doc?”
he said “oh, that’s easy: your problem is that you have a sore index finger, stop touching yourself and you’ll be fine”
Thanks for your encouragement. I don’t know how to post a clip
and I don’t think I have the equipment needed. What’s that take?
I am, you know, the complete computer idiot.
Note, by the way, that the advice in this thread has nothing
to do with my expertise as a musician. Let me suggest to you
that it is good advice, yes? that might save somebody
real trouble.
It’s a message board, old son. Nothing the matter with
posting on it. What it’s for. Nor is there anything the matter
with giving advice if it’s good advice. You and I tend to
give the same advice, you may note.
Also it’s hard not to read your posts like this one without the sense
that there is an implicit idea–if you are going to give advice
you ought to post a clip. Iit’s hard to avoid the impression.
that this boils down to ‘Put up or shut up.’ You have a long record
of trying to control what people post here. This seems the latest
edition. It’s a pity, IMO, because you have a lot of valuable
stuff to contribute, if only you would leave the bad temper
out of it.
By the way the unnamed ‘some of us would like to hear what you
sound like’ business is disingenous.
It verges on the poison pen letter, which depends on not
naming the source. If ‘some of us would like to hear’ what I sound
like’ name them. I’m convinced you can do better than this. I see you as capable of a manly form of
forthright honesty.
You know, I actually like you, old buddy. I’ve learned a lot from you.
You’re one of the reasons I’m here. I don’t mind your irascible
nature, but I do hope you’ll stay within reasonable bounds
and see power plays for what they are.
To answer your question, I’ll be glad to post a clip when
I have the equipment and know how. Grateful for your advice
as always. Jim
We’re talking about the index finger, right? 
I am at a loss as to just how to respond. I won’t give the names of people who’ve commented about you. That was private correspondence. I’m sorry you took it as a cheap shot. I’m not being disingenuous. How about “reliable sources?”
As for the advice you give - are you qualified to say what is a good therapist or a bad one? Or what constitutes radical intervention? My advice would be a program of strengthening and stretching. And to take it easy. And not to whine. I think your advice is worthless without knowing a lot more about the person with the stiff finger.
As for the equipment needed to post a clip, you can find that info easily enough. I did it and I am older than you are. I’ve been a computer idiot longer than you.
Sure you can post on the message board. But you shouldn’t be surprised when somebody takes you to task. I do not give the same advice as you do. And I give it a lot less.
I don’t think it’s a bad idea that if you do give advice you verify your advice by showing that you know what you’re talking about. If you don’t how are we to take you seriously? ‘Put up or shut up’ is rather bald. I never said that. I did say that without demonstrating some sort of expertise it’s hard to take you seriously. If you take that as ‘Put up or shut up’ then that’s your take.
I really do believe in free speech and in not controlling the content of this forum. I’ve made that clear in my support of Andrew and others who have been censored. If I try “to control what people post here” it is by taking people to task when I think they are full of shit. Some people say things that I disagree with and I try to answer them politely. Others I view as poseurs who lower the level of discourse.
“…you have a lot of valuable stuff to contribute, if only you would leave the bad temper out of it.” Actually I get a kick out of this. It isn’t bad temper so much as fool baiting. With Andrew gone somebody has to uphold standards of accountability.
“I see you as capable of a manly form of forthright honesty.” Is this the same as burly? You should see me in the gym.
“You know, I actually like you, old buddy. I’ve learned a lot from you. You’re one of the reasons I’m here. I don’t mind your irascible nature, but I do hope you’ll stay within reasonable bounds and see power plays for what they are.”
Irascible is kind. And thank you for liking me. Liking me will get you nowhere. Unfortunately you like George Bush too. If you’re going to keep to the same amount of advice and … well, verbiage.. you’re going to have to deal with me.
I’ll not post on this issue again. I will leave you with the last word.
Or none.
Thanks for your response. If you are not in aposition to name the
‘some of us’ who want to hear what I sound like, better not
to mention them and to speak only for yourself. The alternative
looks slimey.
You say my advice is worthless. Here’s what I wrote.
Readers may judge for themselves if its worthless.
'Yes, I suffered this very problem a couple of years ago,
so badly that I saw two physicians. It hurt in the place
yours does.
The more knowledgeable physician said that the activity
of playing flute/whistle ‘angered’ the tendon.
There was the beginning of tendinitus. It’s an overuse
problem, probably.
If I may say what I was told, and what cannot do any harm,
stop playing for three days, take an anti-inflammatory (eg
ibuprofen) unless you have some intestinal issue
that these exacerbate (follow directions, eat first), ice the finger after playing and warm it in
hotish water before playing.
I found I needed more extention so I fashioned a bopep
of plastic tubing bought at a hardware store, cut off a section
an inch or more long, split it, and placed it over the wooden
flute as a left-hand rest. My cramped left-hand position
was part of the culprit. Of course there are commerical
bopeps for silver flutes; many people need to uncramp
the left hand.
The problem went away slowly over a few months
and now is entirely gone.
Also I found that a curved index was better than a straighter
one (as in piper’s grip), because there was less lifting.
Generally when one runs into repetitive motion trouble
it’s a good idea to review one’s basic position for holding
the flute. Figure out how to relate to the beast in a
more skillful way that doesn’t cause the problem.
Good technique and position are very useful as
a preventative.
Finally I’ve learned that, left to myself, I will play flute
obsessively until I injure myself. The human body cannot
match the willing spirit. There are basic rules for
practice, like stopping every now and then, mixing things
up, stopping when it hurts, etc. The warming up
and icing down may be useful as a regular routine.
Lots of info about this if you search.
Finally if the problem remains a real problem or gets
worse, see a specialist, e.g. a hand surgeon in orthopaedics.
Good ones will not recommend radical intervention.
Be very careful about injections of hyrocortisone
into the tendon in that finger. I’ve been warned by
a very good hand surgeon that they can kill the tendon.
I’ve come upon a very fine fellow at Barnes Jewish
in St. Louis. Also there may be hand therapists
who specialize in advising about these problems.
These aren’t physicians and they have a good deal
of practical know how, if they’re good.
If one plays flute seriously, one has to be careful.
I’ve suffered three different injuries or problems,
all turned out to be manageable, and without
serious intervention. If you’re going to get into
this, learning to play without injury is something
worth doing.
finally a computer key board can create problems, when
added to hand use on flute/whistle. Voice activated
software may be worth looking into. I also learned to
type without using the left index. There were times
when I taped the left index to left middle finger,
so as not to use it.’
You’re really reaching to dismiss this as without
any merit at all. Silly. And my posting a clip
would be entirely irrelevant to the questions you
now raise about how I can tell good from bad
therapists. If that was the issue, why not raise
it from the first? Because you have this agenda
of getting people who give advice to post clips,
and your trying to squeeze in that direction.
‘Gee you give a lot of advice. Some of us would
like to hear what you sound like..’ Again, if your
concern was that I don’t know enough about medical
issues to advise about sore fingers, the clip
thing had nothing to do with it.
What’s your problem about being forthright?
You say if I give advice I’ll have to deal with you.
That’s fine with me. I respect what you say.
I think your idea of posting clips is a good one.
I praised the clip you posted. I have treated you with cordiality
and respect under some rather extraordinary
circumstances, as I trust you remember.
Take me to task all you want. I just ask one thing of you:
Let’s do it man to man.
ancient itm proverb 101:
he who cannot discuss index finger is likely to get poked in eye by one
Sorry Jim, but the more you post, the more people begin to wonder just how your playing sounds. No value judgment implied here, but let’s hear some music from you.
As I said on another thread, I’ll be posting a clip soon myself - let’s all do it, and let’s leave the macho-talk out of it while we’re at it.
Rob
Hmm. Well, he did say he suffered the same problem in the past and used Ibuprofen and RICE. That’s pretty common advice.
Actually I was less encouraged by the advice than at least knowing that it was indeed the fluting that has caused the pain. I wake up with pain today and that’s the only thing I can think of that might have caused it.
I only played the darn thing for a few minutes, too.
It sucks getting older. Seems like a lot of once inconsequential things now can cause me pain that takes a long time to recover from.
I have generally found that pain results from tension, and as a beginner you’re probably gripping the thing too tightly and/or lifting your fingers too far. Try watching yourself in the mirror when you play and look for signs of tension, and listen to what your body tells you. Lessons can be very valuable, especially when you are starting out.
You have probably not really injured yourself. If you have managed to injure yourself enough in just “a few minutes” that you NEED to see the doctor, then I’d suggest that you only play under the supervision of an experienced teacher until this problem is solved!
A clip of my playing circa 2 or 3 months ago (comparing two flutes)
As I said earlier, I’d be glad to post a clip. I asked some practical questions.
Can you help?
I see what you mean about macho talk, but I don’t think that’s
quite what I had in mind. More the Yiddish idea of a mensch.
Has to do with a strength that deals with people forthrightly
and without games, also that visits the sick in the hospitals.
A kind of moral manliness.
Obviously not the provence of men alone!
Very sensible. You may also wish to consider how much
you’ve been playing whistle. Also to check your hand
position’/finger tension there too. In my experience this
stuff isn’t necessarily the result of age.