From that description it seems like the grip is similar to this that I saw on an M&E flute page. It shows a close up of both hands: http://www.irishflutes.net/mef/hands.htm
I’ve tried it and it seems pretty comfortable except for the left hand thumb, which is hard to place in that position. It feels better to point the thumb toward me and have the flute rest on outside of the second knuckle.
The instrument in the pics is keyed so it looks like a grip that would work if I decide to move up to that type of flute. What do you think?
Not quite sure what you mean description-wise, but the M&E stuff is mostly pretty sensible/helpful. I’d argue against having your L thumb under the flute supporting it, keys or none, because it does unhelpful things to the rest of that hand’s posture, which will probably be unhelpful to finger reach and mobility and could feed back stress into the arm,shoulder and neck. As mentioned in my sheet somewhere, it is a good plan to experiment with no L thumb contact at all - if just as an exercise, let it dangle while you sort other things out, even try to play that way a bit (does wonders for your confidence in the 3-point system) then just gently fold it up against the side of the flute - where it would be ready to use a Bb key if there was one. The no L thumb contact/no pressure idea also helps with preventing “death grip” where you try to squeeze/hold the flute with the L hand fingers to secure it… ultimately painful and immediately movement restricting - and much harder to do if the thumb isn’t providing counter-pressure.
As you’ll have realised if you read all my bumf, I totally disagree with M&E and anyone else who says the R thumb is unimportant: IMO it is actually THE most important digit and much else revolves around or emanates from it. But I won’t repeat all that here - anyone who wants can go read via the link.
Interesting, so let the left hand thumb dangle? Yes it does feel strangely alright. What is your bumf (sorry I don’t understand that term), can you link it?
Sorry to you and everyone else reading this page for being a PITA with all my questions. I just don’t want to get off on the wrong foot.
Nice idea, but one hell of a lot more work! I do my best to be very clear, precise and methodical with verbal description. But this and my other help sheets are compilations, edited together from various bits and pieces I’ve written plus ideas from others to try to make a coherent, step-by step method. Illustrating them with pictures (photos or drawings - the latter beyond my own abilities) or making a video needs the help of a second person, careful planning and a good bit of work editing and compiling. I’m not saying “never”, but it goes rather beyond my self-assigned remit (making the most of pre-existing stuff) and I simply don’t have time. Looking at my YT clips (one of the links in my signature will take you to a YT video and thence to my YT Channel) may at least flesh things out a bit in that you can see what I do myself.
That part is a piece of cake for me (photos/video anyway I can’t draw either). I’m just not experienced enough to know if I’ve got your described grip correct.
Oh, taking photos or videos isn’t a technological problem - I post enough! No, it’s planning and then staging them and shooting them so they show well the detail one wants to illustrate - which, as I said, needs not only an assistant but careful forethought about exactly which points in the process described one is going to illustrate, then working out how best to shoot each one, probably taking multiple shots to choose from - and then editing the actual shots (again, not a technological problem, but a time-consuming one). It’s far more of a publishing job than just writing the guidance was…
Besides, I’m not totally convinced that pictures would be decisively helpful. One of my essential points is that everyone has different physical conformation and will arrive at at least subtly different versions of the posture suited to themselves. Getting there is a process which can be described in words or demonstrated to an individual in the flesh by adjusting them physically. Having photos of one particular person illustrating the ideas at key points could have the unfortunate and undesirable, even disastrous effect of leading folk with different physical equipment from the exemplar trying too closely (and for them perhaps inappropriately) to emulate what they see, to force their bodies into shapes which work for the person illustrated but not for themselves, forgetting the whole business is a method to achieve a personal outcome, not a prescription of some universal “correctness”.
Careful reading and following of my written instructions and principles and observation of oneself in doing so, both directly by sight and sensation and in a mirror, should, I hope, enable anyone (whatever their physique and personal circumstances) to follow the method to discover their own ideal, correct-for-them posture. Learning to self-analyse and adjust thus (an ongoing process, BTW) is part of my overall advocated method. Looking at a picture doesn’t give that. One would need multiple pictures of each stage showing how things worked with a representative variety of hand types and overall builds etc… and even then…
I had the good fortune to play in a session with the superb Mike McGoldrick last Sunday evening. There were a lot of fluters (20 or so, I think) as well as other instrumentalists from all over Britain and a good few from Ireland at the event, including Patsy Moloney and many of the Moloney clan as it was his brother Conor’s party, as well as local Manchester musos. I don’t really know who many of them were, but there were a lot of R&Rs and other antique flutes in evidence as well as modern flutes. Mike played fabulously, of course, but not only was he the only L hander (on his custom keyed Grinter), but he was the only shoulder propper and pipers’ holder I saw: everyone else I noticed (and I had a good look!) had a classical type hold. Just saying.
I am beginning with the flute (self teaching). Mine is an Olwell keyless Pratten model. Initially tried the standard hold with no success (as MeMyselfandI, I have trouble to be skilful with the LH). With Piper’s grip I find it easier (I’m used to the Low whistle also).
My hold is something similar to these: Emer Mayock, Stephen Doherty, Barry Kerr
Maybe I’m doing something wrong? Or simply (for my hands and with this kind of flute) it always will be easier with Piper’s grip…?
Probably yes (you haven’t found how to do it “right”) and possibly, but IMO no (it’s not your hands or the flute).
Have you read through my help sheet and tried carefully following the method I explain to fit your hands & arms to the flute? If you read the whole thing (lengthy, I know) you’ll see I don’t totally dismiss the alternatives, and if ultimately one of them is what you prefer/think best for you, fair enough. But don’t give up on the orthodox fashion yet - if it isn’t working for you, you have not found your personal correct version of it. Find that and it will have none of the disadvantages it seems to have when you get it wrong, and none of the inbuilt disadvantages of the other methods. The fact you are playing a keyless flute is an irrelevance.
