Having never had a chance to play a keyed flute; is it possible to re-fit appropriate keys to fit someone with pipers grip, or do some keys then require the blocks be in different positions?
Piper’s-grip player here. In my experience the standard blocks and keys on any flute never posed any logistical problems (with one sure exception to be named), but this will perhaps, in some cases, depend on the shape of key touches. The sure exception: a standard Bb key touch is pretty much unusable to the piper’s grip. If you are planning on getting a new flute made, I would strongly recommend that the Bb key have a double touch. If you’re looking for used, definitely keep an eye out for a double Bb touch. They’re not common, but they’re out there.
I can’t play standard keyed flutes ever since I had to switch to the piper’s grip due to wrist issues: The blocks are in the way and I need to rotate the left and right hand sections significantly out of line which causes all sorts of key touch issues, even if I could seal the holes, which the blocks prevent. And there’s always the Bb issue nano mentioned.
Obviously some people who play piper’s grip can mostly make a standard keyed flute work, for those can’t, ordering a custom made flute is one option. The other option is to have post mounted keys added to a keyless flute. Maurice Reviol is a good option when going this route.
On the note of flute pipers grip, is there any good videos on how to pipers grip like hold a irish flute? Or am I misreading and you guys hold the irish flute in the standard fashion (left hand specifically). I really hate the standard way. Maybe I’m doing it wrong. But Having my fingers bent after the first finger joint just feels so much less responsive than pipers grip where I can move my entire finger to do taps and stuff quickly. so my left hand ornaments come out significantly worse. I’ve tried bansuri style holding which works better but doesnt hold it as stability for playing fast.
To whoever replied to me but deleted it because it bugged out and said it was posted by me quoting my post that disappeared, thanks for the video. I’ll try playing like that and see how it feels. With a little adjustment it will most likely feel better.
Here’s one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gvFNEVM_Dk
You find all sorts of grip variants, some of them even mixed. Larry (the fellow in the vid’s foreground) shows very clearly a grip that falls squarely within piper’s grip parameters. Take note of his right (upper) thumb: it extends back toward the head, and beneath enough to afford both support, and pressure against the face. With piper’s grip this is a common solution to the problem of stability.
Uh - actually, that was me. I totally screwed up and edited your post to blazes, thinking I was working on a quote instead. I was hoping to get it fixed before you noticed, but that’s what I get. Imagine me chuckling ruefully. 
I picked a different video of the same player, too.
Haha no worries, that’s much better, and more amusing, than the forum having some strange bug. I feel your pain, I constantly try to edit or delete posts and messages to friends and they always see it before I do.
Madpiper13, check out Michael McGoldrick’s YouTube videos. He pulls it off seemingly without a problem.
Tom Doorley also comes to mind. I saw him playing a keyed Olwell with piper’s grip in the documentary “The Keymasters” – highly recommended btw and can be watched on Vimeo. Couldn’t find a video of him playing it on youtube however.
Look on Vimeo for “Tom Doorley – flute player”.
However, he only uses piper’s grip for the left hand.
While he’s a fine player, McGoldrick is probably not someone you want to copy with regards to how he “holds” the flute: He rests the flute on his shoulder, forcing both his shoulder and neck into bad positions, which is just asking for neck, back and shoulder problems.
In a lot of videos you maybe can’t see how extreme his positioning is, but this video has some very good angles and close-ups, and the tunes aren’t bad either 
https://youtu.be/piqsTFRksfI
McGoldrick and some others use this shoulder rest position to overcome the inherent instability of the pipers grip on flute, and it definitely works for that purpose, but again, there’s likely to be some significant physical repercussions down the line…
Thanks for the Doorley video. I didn’t quite believe that piper’s grip would work on the left hand, until I observed it!
Curiously, his right hand fingers are not as flat as his left hand - would you call that a partial or almost piper’s grip? I mean, I know people (even with small fingers on a huge flute) who play with the tips of their fingers. When I re-configured my hold along the recommendations of the Rockstro hold, my left hand fingers are arced, while the right hand fingers semi-flat (on the pads of the fingers) like Doorley’s.
I agree that straighter fingers articulating from the “hand knuckles” is easier/faster, while lifting (e.g. the left fingers) from the finger knuckles is more awkward. I notice that even if the base of my left index finger is against the flute, I actually can articulate that finger from the hand knuckle. That is not my habit however, and I also notice that my B and A rolls have been the slowest to gain agility.
Vimeo is so much more pleasant to watch than Youtube. Damn the YT advertisements! (Not to mention the YT soul-sucking algorithm that steers you ever deeper into extremist videos.
And notice in the video from the same series, that Harry McGowan has the “normal” left hand, but uses very flat fingers on the right - clearly a right-hand piper’s grip.
I also notice that he hinges the left index finger at the joint where the finger meets the hand.
When I use piper’s grip (but I mostly switched to Rockstro’s) – I do it like that, too. Right hand (I’m right-handed) normal, left hand piper’s grip. Makes the ornaments easier and faster with the left hand for me. Also more comfortable for the wrist. But not as comfy for the thumb(s). With piper’s grip, my thumbs are below the flute and carry the weight, with Rockstro’s they are behind the flute and the left thumb carries no weight at all. Both flute-support-systems have their advantages and disadvantages.
I always marvel at Matt Molloy – his left wrist is almost straight even with Rockstro’s. Very efficient fingering – and it seems so effortless. Just amazing.
https://youtu.be/R2v1t6jS8zc
Ah Loren, good point. While the keyed flute can be addressed with a piper’s grip, the resulting shoulder rest and neck crane don’t seem to be healthy ergonomics. Some aging players on this forum have mentioned moving to lighter and thinner flutes— probably evident of ergonomic issues playing the flute presents in general.
Even with piper’s grip there is no need to rest the flute on the shoulder.
Here’s another example. Interesting is – in his older videos, John Wynne still does rest the flute on the shoulder. In the latter one, he doesn’t but still uses piper’s grip. Like Tom Doorley, he only uses piper’s grip for the upper hand – in his case the right hand, as he is left-handed.
https://youtu.be/CLH4JNBq3F8
Yes, the shoulder support variation of the piper’s grip is one of several, and the only one I singled out because McGoldrick was specifically mentioned in a previous post. The other variations are less stable, but doable, which is why some players suffer the shoulder support version. My intention however was to point out that if one chooses to use the piper’s grip, the flute on shoulder variation is the one that is potentially the most physically damaging, and therefore should probably be avoided.
Also of note, many modern wood flutes have headjoint that is shorter on the end cap side of the embouchure hole, making the shoulder support even tougher and more uncomfortable. 
Very true. From what I read online, McGoldrick already does suffer from shoulder and neck problems.
This is correct. It never even occurred to me until I’d already had years in and eventually saw it for myself; tried it out of curiosity, and tossed that idea right out the window.
My grip is for all practical purposes exactly like what you see in the vid I posted, and I’ve never had stability issues; do it right, and you’re solid as a rock. I’m not recommending this grip, but I am saying that if it’s intuitive or for some reason better for you, it’s perfectly viable on its own terms, and you will be in very good company. I valiantly tried the standard or so-called Rockstro grip, and nerve issues prevented me from going that route. Fortunately, in a Trad environment there’s a lot of room for departure from the prescribed.
Yeah, I mean when I had to switch to piper’s grip I got super frustrated initially, so I tried the shoulder thing…for about 30 seconds 
I just thought “nah, I’m not gonna mess myself up like that”.
Pipers grip can definitely work, but life will be a whole lot easier if one can stick with the standard grip: much better support, and you can purchase/play any standard keyed flute out there.
Piper’s grip specific flutes are pretty uncommon in the wild, so your used keyed flute purchasing options are super limited, unless you are one of those people who can make your Piper’s grip work on a typical keyed flute, which for me at least was super uncomfortable, barely doable, and led to lots of fluffed notes due to missing a proper seal too often. But hey, there are far better players out there than I, and where there’s a will there’s a way. Personally though, at least with instruments, I prefer easy, comfortable, and ergonomically correct, although any flute hold is going to be sub-optimal with regards to the latter, however some grips and instruments are more sub-optimal than others.