Irish Gaellic translation needed please

Whistle
1

Does anyone know the meaing of Súil a Grá? And is it the same as Shule agrah? I have the piece “Johnny’s Gone for a Soldier” (the version arranged by Carolee Curtright) and it says Shule agrah means Come with me, my love. However I was told never to trust score etc translations because they aren’t always right.

I was also wondering if anyone is aware of the origin of this song. I have heard a few different versions, but I’m not sure which one is correct. The lyrics are:

Shule, shule, shule agrah,
Time can only heal my woe,
Since the lad of my heart did go,
Johnny’s gone for a soldier

Johnny dear has gone away,
Gone away across the bay,
My heart is sad and weary to day,
Johnny’s gone for a soldier

Shule, shule, shule agrah,
Time can only heal my woe,
Since the lad of my heart did go,
Johnny’s gone for a soldier

Johnny’s gone away,
Johnny’s gone away to war

I trace these gardens o’er and o’er,
Meditate on each sweet flow’r,
Thinking of each happy hour,
Johnny’s gone for a soldier

I wish I was on yonder hill,
There I’ll sit and cry my fill,
So ev’ry tear might turn a mill,
My Johnny’s gone for a soldier

Shule, shule, shule agrah
Time can only heal my woe,
Since the lad of my heart did go,
Johnny’s gone for a soldier

Thanks

2

Hi. Properly it should be spelled Siúil a Ghrá, I believe. It means, “Walk (or travel) [on], my love”. Whether that can also mean “come with me”, I don’t know. I always thought it was a blessing for someone travelling far away, that he or she should have no mishaps. And yeah, it’s pronounced pretty much like “Shool uh Grah”. You want to get that softer “gh”, though, if you want to nail it better. :slight_smile:

3

Nanohedron -

Thank you for your help…I don’t suppose you might know where I could find the origin of this song do you?

4

I’d try a Google search if you haven’t already, specifically Mudcat Cafe. That site is Folksong Central. You might also look up Siúil a Rún. I’m not too big on the songs, so I’m no expert, but yours seems related to Siúil a Rún without knowing how the melody goes. Dunno which came first.

Good luck. :slight_smile:

Oh: it just occurs to me that Fiddler’s Companion might also have info for you on origins. That site can be very good for that.

5

Siúil a Rún I’ve only ever heard sang in Irish. Just means walk walk walk my love. A girl in my local sings it as her party piece. So don’t know if it’s the same song or not.

6

The way I’ve heard it is with the refrain in the Irish, and the verses sung as Bearla. The content of the English verses is pretty similar as in the lyrics above, but as far as I can tell, the refrain content is pretty different. The rhythms seem pretty close, though.

7

As long as were talking about translations, does anyone know the translation for “a stor mo croi” and for the word “se” (like the lunasa album)? Thanks

8

Think it means darling of my heart, something like that “of my heart” anyway.

9

I’m guessing “se” (with a fada on the e like the lunasa album) is the number six. I learned six as “a se”, but maybe they just left out the “a” and meant the same thing, as it’s their 6th album (?). that would be my guess. or there’s some rule I missed making it permissable to leave out the “a”. otherwise “se” means “he”, which doesn’t seem to make much sense in that context.

cheers,
Sara

10

Sé can mean six, he, it, is or are, depends on the context. Pronounced shay.

11

Ooops. Double post :blush:

12

This little part is also in Siul a Ruin but the rest is quite different. I’m sure they’re related somehow though. I’m very fond of Siul a Ruin. It’s a lovely piece to sing.

13

Yeah, I guess I was thinking along the lines of someone gone away to fight in wars, but then that’s not so unique a subject, is it.

Stór is a noun meaning “store” (not in the sense of a shop), “stock” or “treasure”. It can also mean “storey” (as in a two-storey house), but in a stór mo chroí, it’s obviously meant in the sense of “treasure”.

14

Thanks, you guys are really on your game

15

Johnny has Gone for a Soldier - that’s the name of the song as I remember hearing it by Judy Collins on one of her earliest albums. It has almost the same air as the song Siúil a Rún (just a few different ups and downs) and some of the same words but in English (or in American). There are some other verses, I’ll sell my rock, sell my reel.. and Now my love he has gone to France.. I always thought it was simply an American variant of the original Irish.

Also Siúil a Ghrá I believe is yet another variant with a slightly different air and some of the same words. Mudcat will surely have all of these listed out. Nice to think of these again!

16

Irish is like Engish, easy to get tripped up. Se means six, but also means “he”. I used to be fluent in Irish. It’s a bit rusty now, but I think Siuil a ghra would be Walk my love. Spelling varies by district. Also there can be anglicized spelling and pronounciation. Most Irish place names were arrived at by Anglicizing the original.

17

As a (Scots) Gaelic speaker, Siúil a Rún and Siúil a Ghrá are the same (Go, My Love).

So in this case, the song name is ‘Johnny has Gone for a Soldier’ and the opening is either a phonetic throw back to Suil a Run or used here not so much for the meaning, but as a voiced rhythm common in Gaelic songs.

Simply this is an American adaptation to ‘Siúil a Rún’ also known as Buttermilk Hill :wink:

18

That’s correct.

“Siúl a Ghrá” doesn’t mean “come with me,” even by implication. But people might be led to think so, based on translations of the original chorus of the song:

Siúl, siúl, siúl a rún,
Siúl go socair agus siúl go ciuin,
Siúl go doras agus éalaigh liom
Is go dté tú mo mhuirnín slan

Which translates to:

Walk, walk, walk, my love
Walk qently and walk quietly
Walk to the door and escape with me
And may you go safely my darling.

My guess is, as Teuchter suggested, that whoever wrote “Johnny is Gone for a Soldier” simply pulled the first line of the chorus from the older song without realizing that it doesn’t make a lot of sense out of context.

“A stór mo chroí” literally means “O treasure of my heart” (the “a” is called the “vocative particle,” and indicates that you are addressing someone, rather than speaking of him or her). Like most Irish endearments, however, it can also simply be translated as “O my love” or “O love of my heart.” Same is true of “a rún”…“rún” literally means “secrect,” but in this context is best translated as “love” or “dear one.”

As was indicated, “sé” can mean “six” or “he/him,” but it can also mean “it.” Irish doesn’t have a neuter pronoun, so “sé” or “sí” (or é/í in some cases) are used according the the grammatical gender of the noun they replace. If the gender of the noun isn’t known (as when playing 20 Questions), “sé/é” is the default.

If the song in question is “Níl sé 'ná lá” (it’s not yet day) “sé” here means “it,” and is used because “lá” is masculine.

Redwolf

19

Gaelic Storm did something similar with their third album: “Tree” (“trí”). The funny thing is, it was my husband who caught it, not me. We were driving one day listening to the CD, and I wondered aloud why they called it “tree.” He looked at me and said “Er…a haon, a dó, a trí…” :laughing:

Redwolf

20

hmm, I thought the Gaelic Storm thing was “tree” because if you ever hear Patrick Murphy say a word that begins with “th” the “h” kinda disappears. so “third” is “tird” and so on. but I spose that could also be related to the Gaelic, since it doesn’t have the “th” sound English does. oh well, I think that was the last halfway decent GS cd anyways…

Sara