Hello, I have been reading this forum for a few weeks now (and lmrao). I must say that I am impressed that you people are able to have so much fun and be serious about this topic as well. It is a great mix. My wife does not understand why I enjoy most of the humor, but it fits my style most of the time.
I am just getting back into music, having a piano and concert band (cello and trumpet) background. I have also picked up a recorder or two as well as a violin in my past but not seriosly enough to get any skill.
My question is this. Considering my background and coming from a sheet music learning where do the various ranges of notes for whistles and flutes fit on a regular piece of sheet music? I use middle c as a reference. Such as, where does a low D fit, a G whistle or Irish D flute and the high c’s and d’s I have been reading so much about??? I hope you will be able to answer this question as I have had difficulty getting this answered thus far.
Well, the most commonly played soprano whistle is D scale. It’s written in the treble clef…It actually plays an octave up, but is written starting from the D above middle C (the highest note I usually dare to play is the second octave B (right above the first ledger line on the treble staff)…you CAN play an entire second octave (and with some soprano whistles, even into the third), but it gets so shrill up there I’m generally more comfortable reaching for a whistle in a different key if I really HAVE to play that high (fortunately, I can’t think of many occasions when I’ve had to do that). A low D whistle would actually play an octave lower than the soprano D, so again, think starting at D above middle C (only this time you’re actually playing that pitch).
D whistles are the most commonly played because most Irish music tends to fall in the keys of D, G, A, Em and Am, all of which are fairly easy to play on a D. I suppose you already know that whistles are transposing instruments…if you want to play in a key different from those that are easily obtained on a D whistle, you pick up a whistle sized for a different key, but use the same fingerings (so, if you have a tune in D and want to play it in Eb, you would pick up an Eb whistle but play it with the same fingering you would use on your D whistle).
While it’s true that, to a folk musician, an Irish flute and a D whistle are both in the “key of D” (because they are diatonic instruments and produce a D major scale), to an orchestral or band musician, these are all instruments in the key of C, so that when you play a G on a whistle or flute it is the same note as the G on the piano keyboard.
Peep, that is exactly true. It seems that some of the mfg’s I have contacted to get my questions answered have trouble making that transition. Either they are totally ear trained and don’t know a note from Adam or they want me to immediately change to THEIR way of thinking without considering my background. VERY frustrating on both counts.
I am starting to get it, but until I get my instruments and do some comparing and playing it will not be really clear to me where each range (ie: low D or high D) fit in relation to my current experience and knowledge.
Thanks to all of you for taking the time to help. I am looking forward to more information on this.
I’m not sure what the confusion is regarding the range of notes on regular sheet music. The range of notes for a low D is from the D above middle C up two octaves (give or take a little, depending on the whistle). The range for a high D is written the same way, but actually pitched an octave higher (picture a treble clef with a little 8 on top of it). If you’re talking about a soprano C, the note range on the staff is from middle C to two octaves above middle C, but again, it’s actually pitched an octave up from that. I come from a classical background myself (choral), and I just can’t think of any other way to say that.
Er… so, with this definition, what instrument would NOT be in the key of C??? The way you put it, even a standard trumpet would be in the key of C: when you blow a Bb, you could find the “same” Bflat on a piano…
I guess you could look at is as the key of “C” being the “natural key” as there are no sharps or flats. Kind of a base line against which all others are compared? Maybe that is where the idea comes from.
It is true though, that no matter what SCALE you are playing, a G is a G is a G. True?
Maybe we should refer to them as the D scale or C scale intruments? Although that is what the “key of” statement implies.
Redwolf, I do not think it is a matter of confusion but one of familiarity or lack thereof. Any time a new person enters a new field of study, whether it be a hobby or a vocational thing, there will always be a learning curve. To the people that are already involved it is “Oh, why don’t you get it!” To the newcomer it is just a jumble of information until enough experience and knowledge are obtained to make sense of it. That is where I am right now. I am in accumulation mode so I can understand and communicate in a way that makes sense to both of us. Two worlds are merging and that is usually an explosive event!!!
When you play a C (for example) on a d whistle what comes out is the same as a C played on a concert pitched instrument like a piano. When a trumplet player sees a C on his music and plays what to him is a C, what comes out would be a Bb on a piano. So when we say a trumpet is a Bb instrument we mean not only that the instrument’s fundimental is Bb (concert pitch), but that by convention that same note is written as a C on the trumpet players music.
This means the music is transposed a step when it’s written down, which sounds confusing but makes life easier for the trumpet player.
Basically, it comes down to saying any non-transposing instrument is a C instrument…
Interestingly, and if I get you right… the same definition implies (correct if and where I’m wrong ) :
only a Low D whistle would be a C instrument. Anything other tone is a transposing whistle, at least with the majority of us.
If I take an Eb whistle, read D, finger D, I get an Eb… It’s an Eb instrument.
If I play GHP, read A, play A, I get some kinda sharp Bb: so the GHP is a Bb instrument.
The exact same GHP is called in Brittany the great “biniou”; however, its music is systematically written in Bb in France. Hence, the GHP is not a C instrument in Great Britain, but it gets to be one in Brittany.
Just to add some confusion, if I take my Low C whistle, again I read D, play D, get a C. It’s an instrument in C, but it’s not a C instrument…
I read D, play D on a standard soparno, soporn… er, high D whistle. Problem is what I get is not the d’ but a d", since it transposes one octave higher. Is it still a C instrument? Or a c instrument?
PS:
It’s a triskell. And it should turn clockwise (sunwise), or get malevolent. Think of the nazi svastika as a “tetraskell”, and it was turning the wrong way.
By the way, my Manx Triskell was drawn the wrong way around during 19th century and until ca. 1960. So people commented it was running away from Ireland, bowing before England, and kicking Scotland butts…
Here I use the official (and traditional) orientation, which is the same as the Trikell of Brittany, or Sicily (also a solar legged symbol).
The difficulty here is that the statement that an instrument is in “D” (for example) can mean two different things:
That the instrument’s “fundamental” is concert “D”. (As in, if I cover all the holes on my D whistle I get a concert D.)
That, by convention, the note the instrumentalist recognizes and refers to as “C” is actually a concert “D”. (If whistles were like this, the note we get when we cover all the holes would be called “C” no matter what key whistle we were talking about.)
The problem is there is no “convention” about how music is written for whistles. This is not too surprising since traditional music is traditionally passed on by ear, making all this meaningless.
To my way of thinking, in the world of whistles and traditional music, only definition 1 applies. Definition 2 is just creating confusion.
(By the way, by “concert” I mean that a given pitch matches the note with the same name on a piano, though possibly in a different octave.)
What is this with trumpets playing a “C” and a B flat coming out? I played the trumpet in school and I totally missed that whole thing? Transparent to me. Now I am really confuzalled.
I agree with your number one evaluation too.
Why can’t all these instruments all just get along?
) :
Why can’t all these instruments all just get along?