Things are getting a bit hairy around here, the police showed up at my door at 6:09 PM last night asking me not to play my “flute.” I get a call from my apartment house manager telling me I could practice from 10AM to 7PM. I can do this while I’m still laid up with the broken ankle. These are not the greatest hours for me, especially during the summer, and those hours would preclude me from practicing at home at all. I do my best to accomodate my neighbors who work odd hours, but I guess their working hours are too flexible to make anything predictable. One of these folks, I make sure her car isn’t in the parking lot. The guy upstairs, well, I never know until I get blasted out of my living room. This is the first time I’ve heard my playing was a problem for anyone, as I used to make a point of asking other tenants if I was disturbing them, and they always told me “no.” Of course, they could have been pulling the old small-town passive aggressive thing, being afraid to offend me by saying anything negative. These are new neighbors, and I’ve spoken to both of them and asked them to tell me if I disturb them, they assure me I don’t. (HA!)
I’ve tried the tape trick to quiet a whistle(doesn’t sound like a whistle at all, and there isn’t a whistle exists that is quiet enough. I don’t like my choices here: Not playing the whistle at home at all, or finding a fairly isolated place to rent or buy where I can play to my hearts content! I shudder when I think how expensive it is to do that! I’m not into making everybody else around me happy, but I’m not out to make anyone miserable, either. Meanwhile, I’m feeling crapped on, because I can’t play the whistle in my own apartment! Any suggestions? How do other people who rent cope with this? Does this make whistlers who rent officially a crapped on minority? (I can hear it now “WE MOVE!”) I’ve been through one noise war before, where is wasn’t me being noisy, and ended up out on my ass in what the judge called “contructive eviction” and lost tons of money. Do I really have to give up the whistle to keep this flat which I can afford to live? I’d sooner cut off my ears! It’s obvious, I need to move. Hell, maybe a nasty stink bomb once I’m out of there? Ya think?
Let it shine! Anna “Dances with Weasels” Martinez
[ This Message was edited by: Anna Martinez on 2002-01-26 18:21 ]
Tell them you are a Postal Worker, that should get them to leave you alone. Just kidding. I thought in most areas that one could make as much noise as one wants until 9:00 or 10:00 PM.
Here where I leave people sometimes blast those car stereos in the summer until late evening. I never complained, but some neighbors did. As far as I remember the offenders were allowed to play their noisemakers until 10:00 PM.
Did the police quote any particular statute to you? Hell, you’d figure people would be happy to hear some cultural music in Deadwood!
My reaction to this nonsense, and the ordinance reads 10PM, is to just say tough luck…after all, when I worked the lobster shift from midnight to 8AM and had the nerve to complaint to a noisy neighbor whose reply was this “You work nights and expect the whole friggin’ world to accomodate YOU? You’re nuts! The world runs 9-5, you dumb explitive deleted.” He had a point. I don’t like the idea of letting other people run my life, I’m not passive-aggressive and I ain’t nice! Deadwood doesn’t appreciate anthing anybody does for the town unless you’re part of the in crowd, which I’m not. I’m more like the kid that cried the “Emperor has no clothes!” Deadwood, who keeps their employees at barely minimum wage, pays no benefits and is in violation of damn near every state and federal labor law, well, the workes would benefit from a gonzo investigation by the feds, but are too chicken to eveen try to collect their due. The feds got rid of the last whore house in 1985. Income tax evasion! I worked ten days, 14 hours a day, straight during one motorcycle rally, and no overtime. This is standard pratice around here! One guy got busted for not paying into the state taxes for his employees! Wish more of that would happen. I only get away with rocking the boat because I’m not dependent on Deadwood for my income!
Since whistles are fairly high pitched, it’s most likely that the sound is travelling through shared heating ducts or through window glass rather than resonating the structure itself. You might try blocking any registers in the room you are practicing in, and putting a piece of foam or a blanket over the window to cut down on the sound.
Play in a room with carpeting, curtains and lots of insulating materials. If you had a big walk in closet, it would probably be a perfect late night practice space.
If you have a neighbor above you, it may be hard to insulate completely, and of course even with thick carpet, if you are tapping your foot really loudly, I’d imagine the neighbor downstairs won’t care how much insulation you have on the windows…
BTW, Are you using a narrow bore quiet whistle to practice with?
Good luck
Robert
PS There is a cool device made for saxophones that is a padded gig bag with a special zippered arrangement. This allows the player to practice very quiety while the instrument is actually “inside the gig bag” - only the mouthpiece sticks out, and the player’s hands and all of the tone holes and so forth on the instrument are in the bag while it is being played. Cuts the volume of a pretty loud sax down to practically nothing, and is very useful for apartment dwellers or in hotel rooms. I’m not sure how you’d configure something like this for a whistle…
My advice would be to ask your neighbors again if there is any problem, or ask them what time they turn in at night (or when they put their kids to bed). Do your best to be polite and accommodating. If no one gives you any other feedback, follow the town ordinance, but go one better by quitting at 9:30 pm. Then keep a copy of the ordinance handy to show your landlord or any local gendarmes who may happen to drop by. I’d ignore the apartment house manager and deal with the landlord, unless there’s a clause in your lease about noise. I have a feeling that you’re not keeping anyone awake, but that someone just doesn’t want to hear you playing.
A funny aside: I used to have the drummer and singer for a rock band living downstairs from me. My kids go to bed around 9:00 pm, so I asked them nicely if they wouldn’t mind knocking off by then (though our ordinance allows them to go to 10:00 pm). Luckily for them, they were very agreeable. Otherwise, my older son and I would have had to exercise our right to start playing our fifes at 7:00 am (probably on Saturday and Sunday). There’s nothing like an early morning fife duet to turn a hangover into a brain hemorrhage.
Hi Anna,
I’m really sorry about your situation. I have had the police come to my door about my barking dog, and I found it very upsetting, frustrating (why couldn’t the neighbors deal with me directly?) and stressful. So I sympathize, and have been worrying about my whistle-playing at 2am.
I am really new to the whistle, but I found the tape trick to be inadequate like you did. My apologies if you have already tried all this, but I found making a mute which partially blocks the windway to be much more effective. Of course, it drastically reduces the air requirements, and it sounds a little thinner, but I get enjoyment out of it because I am not stressing out, anticipating an angry knock on my door. Even if my mouth and lungs don’t get much practice, it’s fine for my ears and fingers. Hehe - with my brass Hoover (which is already quiet) muted, I swear I can hear my heartbeat over my whistle!
My thanks to Mack Hoover, who was wonderfully helpful via email, and suggested the “reduce the windway” trick to me. He suggested toothpick halves, but I didn’t have any toothpicks in the house. I tried a few different things. The thing that worked best for me was plastic cable-ties, pushed in until just snug, and clipped off with wire clippers to be flush. I can give more details if anyone’s interested.
I wish I could just say “too bad, neighbors! DEAL, 'cause I’m not breaking any laws!” But I would find I am too stressed, can’t concentrate, and can’t have fun always worrying about the brewing noise-feud.
Oh, and I’m relocating soon, and one of the criteria is definitely whether I will be able to practice my whistle whenever I want! Yup, the rent keeps going up…
Good luck and happy whistling!
Caren
Anna, sounds like you’re suffering from small town woes. Where I live, some people have 1,000+ watt car stereos with sub sonic bass that can be ‘felt’ 2-3 city blocks away.
On the weekends they seem to congregate at the car wash a block away… thinking that all the neighbors around are pleased to hear such great music… free!
When I want to play early in the morning (4:30-5:00 a.m.) I wrap a rubber band around the fipple window. By adjusting how much of the window you block off, the whistle stays very quiet and still plays without being too “airy”. None of my neighbors have complained, or even heard me play, since I have a house. Still, I’ve never wanted to push my luck.
On 2002-01-26 20:17, rpmseattle wrote:
Since whistles are fairly high pitched, it’s most likely that the sound is travelling through shared heating ducts or through window glass rather than resonating the structure itself. You might try blocking any registers in the room you are practicing in, and putting a piece of foam or a blanket over the window to cut down on the sound.
Play in a room with carpeting, curtains and lots of insulating materials. If you had a big walk in closet, it would probably be a perfect late night practice space.
If you have a neighbor above you, it may be hard to insulate completely, and of course even with thick carpet, if you are tapping your foot really loudly, I’d imagine the neighbor downstairs won’t care how much insulation you have on the windows…
BTW, Are you using a narrow bore quiet whistle to practice with?
Robert, thanks for your thoughtful answer. I’m on the first floor, and all apartments are carpeted and fairly well insulated. At least heating bills here are fairly low for the area. The ventilating ducts over the stove are kind of wierd, when it rains here in teh first floor it sounds like the roof right over head. I do have a large carpeted walk-in closet, so I will call the building manager, I have USDA housing, so I do get a break in the rent, and will tell the manager that is where I’ll practice (once I get the stuff I put in there so I could get around in my wheelchair) and ask the kvetching neighbor to test it with me. I don’t pat my foot, and have a feeling it’s an issue of musical taste with my upstairs neighbor. Nope, I don’t have a narrow bore, but even Eric Tullberg’s Soliloquy doesn’t do it! I may have to shop for a narrow bore. The guy upstairs would stop by and bang on my bedroom window and scare the hell out of me, before he’s get home for me to annoy! Anyhow, the manager said it was described to her like I was actually playing in their living room. Gawd, whistle player relegated to the closet! Shame!
On 2002-01-26 20:20, jim_mc wrote:
My advice would be to ask your neighbors again if there is any problem, or ask them what time they turn in at night (or when they put their kids to bed). Do your best to be polite and accommodating. If no one gives you any other feedback, follow the town ordinance, but go one better by quitting at 9:30 pm. Then keep a copy of the ordinance handy to show your landlord or any local gendarmes who may happen to drop by. I’d ignore the apartment house manager and deal with the landlord, unless there’s a clause in your lease about noise. I have a feeling that you’re not keeping anyone awake, but that someone just doesn’t want to hear you playing.
Sounds wars are hell, for sure! I’m also betting this is more about musical taste rather than actual noise, and I’m betting that the social dynamic is one of scapegoating the non-conformist while they’ve got the chance because I’m rolling around in a wheelchair and not so scary! I have to admit, I loved the look on the cops face when I answered the door in the wheelchair! Fine menace to society I am! All the small kids are upstairs. The police are such a great way to get around confrontation! Deadwood workers have their hours changed at whim, so any accomodation I make tonight is probably not good tomorrow. Last time she told me it was Sunday she didn’t want me to play. I stopped playing on Sundays and the cops show up on Friday! The apartment house manager has the final say on who goes or who stays, so I have to work with her. However, those hours she gave me are not good, when I get busy during the summer, I shan’t be able to play at home at all! What’s wierd, there were NEVER any complaints before! Small town blues, indeed!
I think I’ll look for a house and just move! Playing the whistle seems to substitute well for having a real life, at least for me!
Let it shine! Anna “Dances with Weasels” Martinez
[ This Message was edited by: Anna Martinez on 2002-01-26 21:10 ]
Anna
I totally sympathise with your problem. I
live on the top floor of a three storey tenement building in Edinburgh. Until last summer, we had a 98-year old lovely gentleman living below us. When I took up the whistle about 14 months ago, I made a point of asking his care worker to ask him to let me know if my whistle bothered him. She informed me that he was almost completely deaf and would not mind. Unfortunately, he passed away in the Autumn. Now we have a young couple living below us. When they moved in, my husband made a point of talking to them and telling them that I played the whistle and that we are staff to three boisterous cats who like to run about a lot. They said “OK. We don’t mind. We will let you know if you bother us.” However, I generally practise from 7pm to 8pm each evening and, as soon as I blow my first notes, we are treated to a sudden blast of what we call dooff-dooff-dooff “music” that lasts until I stop practising. This has led to tears on more than one occasion. What I don’t get is that, for example, last Thursday/Friday, they decided to throw out some furniture. At 2am Friday morning. And last Wednesday night they had a 45-minute screaming match in the street in front of the building. At such times I feel anger, frustration and despair because the situation is not under my control. Unless things improve, or they move out, we will move ourselves. As for the whistle, well, I have ordered a Hoover narrow bore from The Whistle Shop and await delivery as we speak. But I absolutely refuse to give it up - I have learnt so much and practised so hard over the past year that I refuse to lose the benefit of all that work. So I will just carry on whistling as quietly as I can, get thicker carpets and try to persuade my daft cats not to gallop about as much as they do. I really hope you find a way to solve your problem.
On 2002-01-26 20:49, Anna Martinez wrote:
. . . The ventilating ducts over the stove are kind of wierd, when it rains here in teh first floor it sounds like the roof right over head. . .
Ventilation systems are great for spreading and/or directing sound far away from the source. If designed to code they won’t do it, but from what you have said about Deadwood it sounds like they aren’t.
You may find that just closing the vent while practicing will solve your problems. If you cover it with something instead of closing it make sure it is not close to anything like a stove that will catch the covering on fire.
Styrofoam that is available in sheets of different thicknesses at most any builder supply store (You don’t have to get a 4x8 foot sheet. They are available in smaller sizes) works great to stop the sound. A piece of styrofoam packing of suitable size with a thickness of about 2 inches would work too.
My old art studio had one heating vent. I could hear everything from the whole building coming through that vent. And no I didn’t sit there with my ear up against it. I followed the vent pipes down to the furnace and found that the one going to my studio was shaped in a way that would make it act like a megaphone amplifying sounds. I didn’t have to worry so much about people hearing me as I did hearing other people in the building.
The opposite situation was in another house I lived in. I just covered the vent with styrofoam, crafting the foam in a way that it was easy to put on and take off. It stopped the sounds from traveling from that room to other rooms.
One note of warning. Styrofoam will melt if the temperature of the air coming from the vent is high enough. If you can hold your hand on the vent while the furnace is on without your hand being uncomfortable, it should be fine. The reason I mention this is because I have been in some buildings where the air temperature coming from the heating system is hot enough to cause a nasty burn on skin. It shouldn’t be that hot, but many places don’t follow code.
If your vent in the room you play in is connects to ductwork like at my old studio, you are giving a concert in symphonic ductwork sound everytime you play. A whisper can sound like normal conversational voice, and a shout can resonate like thunder through some ductwork.
Now if covering the vent doesn’t work, you could always listen at the vent to hear if your neighbors give away any nasty secrets. Then call them to let them know how you will tell the world about their secrets if they complain about you playing again.
Anna,
Did you try John Skelton’s “quietening trick” of a small ball of “blue-tack” (the stuff for sticking posters on the wall rather than tape)just below the window of the whistle. It really does work! How about a lower whistle like C or Bb (Generations are easy to get) with a blue-tack ball?
Short of that, if you can rig up a tent (a couple of heavy blankets over a couple of chairs, then sit on a cushion on the floor in the tent…cosy and quiet.
I just want to thank everybody for their replies. This whole thing was getting pretty crazy making, and you’ve been giving me some pretty practical solutions that are not as extreme as moving. It’s the isolation that gets you, ya know? It’s been worse that usual for me lately, not being able to get out and about!
Oh, yeah, there is a noise clause in the lease, seems nobody may do anything to disturb or offend anybody at any time! Sheesh! You can only hope they apply it impartially! Come to think of it, playing during those hours will not accomodate the night worker trying to sleep during the day at all. I’m gonna try the closet, try any and all whistle quieting tricks, and if that doesn’t work, screw 'em, I’m outta here! The bad part is how this kind of crap affects my ability to trust people. I can’t trust 'em to answer me honestly about anything, but I can trust 'em to call out the state sanctioned bullies.
Let it shine! Anna “Dances with Weasels” Martinez
[ This Message was edited by: Anna Martinez on 2002-01-27 11:09 ]
Anna, I just wanted to say I’m thinking of you, and sympathize greatly. I’m usually on the OTHER end of sound wars, that is, I can’t tolerate anyone elses music, dog, screaming, etc, and after being threatened when I tried the nice approach once, and nearly set upon by a gang of teens on another occasion, now I immediately resort to The Authorities rather than try to go it alone. Period. (The physical threats were from the neighbor who said “of course you can tell me whenever I get too loud”).
Padding a small room sounds great. Deadwood doesn’t sound like the kind of place that has a community center with space that can be used (and frankly, I want to be able to practice when and where I choose, not on a scheduled basis). As rough as whistles/fifes can be, I wonder what pipers go through?
Does your building have a basement? I’d bet there would be GREAT acoustics there!
Okay, what about rigging up a frame to sit in front of. You’d probably want it to be at a bit of an angle like this: _ then drape the sides and slanted front with a couple of quilts. Bake the obnoxious neighbor a pie, and ask them to road test it with you.
On 2002-01-27 14:34, tyghress wrote:
Anna, I just wanted to say I’m thinking of you, and sympathize greatly. .
Best of luck, and you keep on shining, Dearheart!
Tyg, you are truly a darling lady and a class act even if you are totally out of touch with Rocky Mountain weather. Come to think of it, it’s been a long while since I’ve been in your neck of the woods, and at least four since I’ve been in Chicago! Anyhow, if you ever make it out this way, to our lovely, scenic Black Hills (where we don’t need air conditioners and de-humidifiers bcause the temp goes down at least 20 degrees at night, the air is clean, you can see stars and the rents are CHEAP and people disgustingly polite) you have a second home with me! I made nice in a letter to the management, I’ll send it when I’m sure I’ve cooled off, including most of the suggestions presented here as potential solutions, and asking that the meanie next door work with me by giving me truthful feedback about how these various solutions affects her when we try them. She won’t be happy with the 10-7 stuff either. Hey, I might actually be developing some diplomatic skills! Will wonders never cease?
Meanwhile, think I need to shut up about Deadwood politics and simply not let it get to me. Funny, C&F has always seemed a warm fuzzy place to be me in, and you just proved it! (HUGS!) We C&Fer’s are a great bunch of people, even when we bicker! You guys just take me buy the ears, assure me I’m not unique and isolated and turn me back into a thinking human being. Some kind of magic here, but I’d bet Dale’d call it group therapy! LOL!
Oh, yeah, I know what good that piece of **** walker that I paid $110 bucks for will be good for! Tenting tonight in the old armchair in the closet! A classy leanto! geeze, visiting kids’ll love it!
Oh, yeah! I also got to give a whistle away to a kid, bashful kid, bless Thom for making it possible, cheap whistle by cheap whistle!
Oh, yeah, anyone want used crutches to make whistles out of? Used Ski poles?
Let it shine! Anna “Dances with Weasels” Martinez
[ This Message was edited by: Anna Martinez on 2002-01-27 15:48 ]
When I want to play early in the morning (4:30-5:00 a.m.) I wrap a rubber band around the fipple window. By adjusting how much of the window you block off, the whistle stays very quiet and still plays without being too “airy”.
I tried this this morning, as I was PATIENTLY waiting for my honey bunny to wake up. This works increadibly well! Thanks! I worked on a new tune that my ego faulters with, and it was great knowing that no one was flinching at those high pitched octaves! grin
Kari (the much more attractive, patient half to the Graphics Guy, Dan)
On 2002-01-27 21:02, Arcaic Lemons wrote:
[I tried this this morning, as I was PATIENTLY waiting for my honey bunny to wake up. This works increadibly well! Thanks! I worked on a new tune that my ego faulters with, and it was great knowing that no one was flinching at those high pitched octaves! grin
Kari (the much more attractive, patient half to the Graphics Guy, Dan)
Kari:
Glad it worked for you. I was up early and didn’t hear a thing over here on the mainland:)
On 2002-01-27 22:38, Graphics Guy wrote:
Sigh…I love you Hunny Bunny,..But you really didnt have to muffle the Clare.
Dan
You guys are so cute it’s not funny! (Or am I sensing that I’m turning both cynical and atad green…mirror mirror, oh hell! I’ll try the rubber band trick and hope the old biddy can’t find a thing to complain about! Oh, I forgot, I’m an old biddy!
I followed the vent pipes down to the furnace and found that the one going to my studio was shaped in a way that would make it act like a megaphone amplifying sounds. I didn’t have to worry so much about people hearing me as I did hearing other people in the building.