I ask because I had a chance to play a whistle the other day that was a very sweet cocobola prototype. I liked it a lot and might try to weedle it out of the maker.
So what’s the story with Cocobola? He asked me if I reacted to poison ivy (I can’t remember reacting to it—but then I don’t go out and roll around in poison ivy, either). He said most people are fine with cocobola if they don’t react to poison ivy.
And if I don’t react to cocobola now, does that mean that I never will?
Thanks!
/bloomfield
[ This Message was edited by: Bloomfield on 2002-10-28 13:24 ]
On 2002-10-25 08:19, Bloomfield wrote:
Or however you spell it.
I ask because I had a chance to play a whistle the other day that was a very sweet cocobola prototype. I liked it a lot and might try to weedle it out of the maker.
So what’s the story with Cocobola? He asked me if I reacted to poison ivy (I can’t remember reacting to it—but then I don’t go out and roll around in poison ivy, either). He said most people are fine with cocobola if they don’t react to poison ivy.
And if I don’t react to cocobola now, does that mean that I never will?
Thanks!
My fave pair of nunchaku are made of cocobolo, and they’re pretty bad to get near when they’re in motion! Just make sure that whistle ain’t one of a pair with chain between!
Cheers,
Bill Whedon
I have a Uilleann pipe chanter in Cocobolo that is one of my favorites. I experience no rash or itchy symptoms from playing it.
Does the whistle you’re interested in have a metal or wooden (fipple) mouthpiece? This may be the only area of concern. I know Loren expressed an allergy to a flute made from cocuswood where his lip presses against the wood. I’d try a thin coating of lacquer sealer if it gave me problems.
As far as concerns to cocobolo go, I only know the warnings are more stated for turning, carving or sanding. Freshly cut cocobolo shavings can cause posion ivy like symptoms if contacted with the skin and more serious, respiratory problems from inhalation of the dust.
There are a few pipemakers who refuse to work with cocobolo because of this. Hovever, if you follow standard safety precautions by wearing a quality filter mask, long sleeved shirts and soap & water cleanup after you ‘work it’ you can keep from having problems.
I’m EXTREMELY sensitive to poison ivy. Like, I get it from the cat if he’s been near it. I have two whistles and a flute made from cocobolo, and I’ve never had a problem.
I have played Cocobolo chanters in an earlier life, not a bother. Some woods induce strong allergic reactions, cocuswood is wellknown for this [that’s why cocuswood flutes often have a metal lip plate]and I know pipemaker who have developed strong reactions to ebony dust. Cocobolo could have the same sort of properties.
IMO its impossible to determine with any degree of certainty whether you could have a reaction to a certain kind of wood. With some species there may be indicators that you may or may not have a reaction but IMO that’s the exception and not the rule. For example, both willow and birch contain salicylic acid in concentrations that have been fatal to people who react to Aspirin.
Some species are considered to be hazardous to work with because severe reactions to them are so common – cocobolo is one of those woods. Reactions to African Blackwood (a favourite of whistle and pipe makers) are also common but AFAIK they tend to be much less severe and are almost always associated with dust rather than the finished piece.
But wood toxicity can vary tremendously within a species and even within an individual tree so you might handle one piece without an adverse reaction but get an adverse reaction from handling the another piece from a different tree.
Just because you didn’t have a reaction to the cocobolo whistle doesn’t mean you aren’t sensitive to it. Reactions are frequently delayed for hours or days. Additionally, some woods are what are called “sensitizers” – they sensitize you that particular species (and sometimes other species) – your reaction to it may be delayed for 6 - 8 months.
I had a very severe reaction to sanding a piece of African Padauk a few years ago (no dust mask, what a moron). From my experience, I would be hesitant to purchase or use an instrument made from a wood that is known to commonly produce severe adverse reactions.
Took me over 6 weeks of playing 1-2 hours a day before I reacted to my Cocus Olwell, very similar to what happened to John Skelton with his Cocus Olwell - even though he had played an old Cocus flute for years prior. And don’t think that getting an old instrument will solve the problem: Most people who are allergic to Cocus will react to old Cocus flutes, John was perhaps a bit unusual that way.
By the way, in many cases you can handle and instrument for hours a day, year after year, with no problem - say a Cocobolo whistle with with a metal or plastic mouthpiece - but once you start having direct contact to your face or lips, BAM!!! Serious reactions can occur. So, just because someone has owned Cocobolo Thin Weasel (for example) with no reaction, this does NOT mean your lips and face won’t swell up and blister when you get that wonderful new Cocobolo Grinter (with the all wood mouthpiece) you’ve been so eagerly awaiting…
Woods that are sensitizers (such as cocobolo) frequently produce delayed reactions but they produce reactions which get more severe with prolonged exposure. They are called “sensitizers” because they make you more sensitive to whatever chemical compound that is in them that you are sensitive to. So, your first reaction may only be a minor rash. Your next noticeble might be blisters and swelling. Prolonged exposure may result in severe, and possibly life threatening, reactions. Alas, once sensitized to the wood it appears that you are sensitized for life. Oddly enough, some woods that are sensitizers seem to also make you more sensitive to other woods even though they aren’t closely related species.
In topics like this there is usually some guy who posts the usual “I’ve been turning nunchaku’s out of cocobolo for 30 years and I’ve have never had a reaction … blah blah blah”. His experience may be quite accurate but it may not be representative of your experience. I know people who have smoked for 50 years who still don’t have lung cancer but I know a whole lot more who have died from it in a much shorter period of time. When it comes to wood toxicity, people’s experiences tend to vary widely.
Even with such “known irritants” as poison oak and poison ivy, sensitivity can change without warning. I’ve known people who boasted for years about their lack of sensitivity to poison oak (even going so far as to rub the crushed leaves over their torso as a “parlor trick”) who suddenly and “without warning” developed severe reactions.
My husband was non-reactive to poison oak throughout his childhood. Then, one day, he was clearing brush near a family cabin and got several scratches on his arms. The oils from the poison oak leaves got into his bloodstream and caused a nasty systemic reaction, and now he’s TERRIBLY sensitive to poison oak.
Likewise, a friend of mine had never had more than a mild contact reaction to poison oak. Then, one day, he was bicycling along the coast trail between Marina and Monterey when he passed (JUST passed…didn’t touch!) a patch of poison oak. Within hours, he was in the hospital, with a rash over 90% of his body!
The point is that sensitivity to any irritant can change radically and without much warning. If there’s any doubt at all, play it safe.
Well, I hope not, but yes…if a substance is known to cause sensitivity, you can come into contact with it for years with no problem, then suddenly develop problems.
The symptoms of poison ivy/oak sensitivity are usually an unbearably itchy, weeping, rash at the point of contact. Because the irritant in this case is an oil, you may also get a rash on any part of your body you’ve touched before washing the part that came into contact with the plant…so if you handled it with your hands and didn’t know to wash them thoroughly, you could get a very nasty rash on your face, genitals, or any other body part you’ve touched.
People who have a systemic reaction can experience problems with breathing (this most often happens to people who inadvertantly inhale the smoke from burning poison ivy or oak wood, such as firefighters).
Any doctor who practices in an area where poison oak or ivy is common can diagnose the rash on sight (as can most parents, after the first bout their children have with it!). It’s very distinctive…a lot of itching and swelling, with tiny blisters that burst and weep a sticky liquid all over the place. Nasty stuff.
On 2002-10-25 09:18, Tony wrote:
I have a Uilleann pipe chanter in Cocobolo that is one of my favorites. I experience no rash or itchy symptoms from playing it.
Does the whistle you’re interested in have a metal or wooden (fipple) mouthpiece? This may be the only area of concern. I know Loren expressed an allergy to a flute made from cocuswood where his lip presses against the wood. I’d try a thin coating of lacquer sealer if it gave me problems.
As far as concerns to cocobolo go, I only know the warnings are more stated for turning, carving or sanding. Freshly cut cocobolo shavings can cause posion ivy like symptoms if contacted with the skin and more serious, respiratory problems from inhalation of the dust.
There are a few pipemakers who refuse to work with cocobolo because of this. Hovever, if you follow standard safety precautions by wearing a quality filter mask, long sleeved shirts and soap & water cleanup after you ‘work it’ you can keep from having problems.
American shagbark hickory can also cause similar evil reactions, when turned wet. Of course, freshly-cut is everso much easier to turn on the lathe - lovely spiral shavings and all. Then the next day, your arms are all over blisters…
Cheers,
Bill Whedon
Just make sure that whistle ain’t one of a pair with chain between!
