Poor Bainbridge was the one to worry about copying. His patent for the side blown flute / flageolet was granted in 1802, I think, and so has expired.
Doesn’t matter of course in the States as his patent didn’t reach there anyway, and word of it would seem to not have reached the southern states even now !
Another example is illustrated in Edgar Hunt’s " The Recorder & it’s Music ". ( Between pp 96 & 97 )
It is interesting in having a long key at the side which gives semitones by raising the pitch of the whole instrument.
So it looks just to be a contrivance (good word, eh??) for those unskilled on the lip to be able to play a flute in 1802.
Look like it’s an air channel designed to be blown on the side, move the air through a tube that curls and then deposits the air stream across the fipple edge.
Interesting.
who don’t bother to read the standard works
And for the life of me, I don’t know what those are! Not too much gets to me out here in the sticks of these Rocky Mountains.
How about sharing titles so the rest of us can bone up?
and word of it would seem to not have reached the southern states even now !
Dang!
News travel slow hea, ya know. Sheet, can’t get nuffin’ fo nuffin’ no mo.
Amazin’ we even know nuffin’ ‘bout anytin’ a-tall!
Good 'ting we haf summun ta learn us, doh.
Well at least you know now what a side blown whistle looks like now. A start, I suppose.
I wonder if there are some among you who are amused or interested by the thaught that people 200 years ago were probably having this sort of discussion and describing similar problems to the ones Mr Mcalister describes for Bainbridge to have produced his side blown whistles. He was succeeded by Hastrick, who produced the same thing in a more useful pitch.
It appears that Mr. Bainbridge was happy to make any mouthpiece necessary to help sell an instrument.
But in ivory, too! That’s pretty
Now…here’s something much more useful! Every judge should have one made!:
http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/map_item.pl?data=/home/www/data/service/music/dcmflute/1300/1357/1357f1.sid&style=dcmflute&itemLink=D?dcm:12:./temp/~ammem_0ff7::&title=DCM%201357%3a%20%20[Matthias%20Barr]%20%2f%20Combination%20Flageolet%20%2f%20Merliton%20(%22Eunuch%22)±+side%20view%20of%20flageolet%2fmerliton(with%20hammer-like%20head)
Tootle when they’re carted off to jail.
How cool!
HERE is the best view of the Bainbridge contrivance.
On the upper left, you see the little blow hole that channels the air to the fipple.
http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/map_item.pl?data=/home/www/data/service/music/dcmflute/0500/0598f1.sid&title=DCM+0598:+++William+Bainbridge+/+Flute-Flageolet+(Fragment)&style=dcmflute&itemLink=r?ammem/dcm:@field(NUMBER+@band(0598%20dcmflute))
AHA
and an anonymous sideblown flageolet…
Gasp…Bainbridge and Hastrick are victimized!
http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/map_item.pl?data=/home/www/data/service/music/dcmflute/0400/0483f1.sid&title=DCM+0483:+++Anonymous+/+Flageolet-Piccolo&style=dcmflute&itemLink=r?ammem/dcm:@field(NUMBER+@band(0483%20dcmflute))
Take a moment to look at this:
http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=dcmflute&fileName=0900/0911/dcmflute0911browse.db&action=browse&title2=DCM+0911:+++William+Bainbridge+/+English+Patent+Double+Flute+Flageolet&displayType=3&recNum=0&itemLink=D?dcm:48:./temp/~ammem_0ff7::
How in the world do you play it without contorting or breaking something? Just think it through and you’ll see what i mean.
dm
These are mad instruments.
I can’t imagine how a human being can play
a triple flageolet.
How are double and triple flageolets germane to this thread ?
Ooops! I must have been channelling another thread. I’m sure i saw a link to an instrument in the DCM collection that was a double flageolet to which someone added a third tube, making it a triple. Sorry.
Quite right Glauber.
The puzzle was why we were being treated to all the stuff about double and triple flageolets.
I’m beginning to draw a picture. Any fans of The Simpsons out there?
“R&R #1347, worst patent head ever.”
Oop, now I suppose I started an argument about whether there was a #1347, if it has a patent head, and what Chris Wilkes would say about it. I’ll take responsibility if this thread becomes engulfed in flames.
Cheers,
Aaron
is that the guy who runs a shop called “Andrew’s Dungeon”?
The puzzle was why we were being treated to all the stuff about double and triple flageolets.
Amazing (and sad) that you were puzzled!
The photo links ALL show side-blown flageolets (who the heck cares that they are doubles or triples.) The operative was to show how the mouthpiece (and in better chosen photos, I’d say) was constructed, as the discussion was quite on topic of sideblown instruments.
Didn’t mean to confuse you with all that! But the idiocy of triple flageolets was clear in the mind-puzzler of how to hold and play such a monstrosity. Thankfully they are little used today.
whether there was a #1347, if it has a patent head, and what Chris Wilkes would say about it.
Nope, no argument, Aaron.
Yes, there was a #1347 (although not yet found) and it was indeed Rudall & Rose.
Chances are it was not originally with Patent Head, as that was patented in 1832 and #1347 was made c.1831.
And only Knucklehead Smiff seems to say what the master flutemaker would say. Question is, whose thoughts are they really?
The idiots of the 19th century understood well enough how to play "such monstrosities ". It is the idiots of the 21st century who don’t.
The suggestion was that whistle players might find the " flute " position more comfortable. The fact that the problem was dealt with 200 years ago should be understood by the brighter members of the forum, or at least interest them. I expect that they already knew what the solution then produced - a side blown whistle- actually looks like.
True enough.
Too bad the end result of a side-blown whistle is currently either a toy or a pile of kindling. Neat idea. Poor execution.
Use a Pan pipe…it’s easier! 
You can rove from the “slip on” mouthpiece that Wheatstone invented to allow non-flute players to play…
to the Giorgi flutes (with blow hole perpendicular to the flute) that allow flute players to hold the flute vertically as a whistle (or flageolet if you like).
All sorts of concoctions…then and now…to help people try to play without pain (or with convenience).
Surely the idiots of today (and I’m happy to count myself among them just for your benefit) must realize that “if it ain’t around no more, it must not have been worth a sheet in the first place, boss.”
Compared to flute makers, how many flageolet makers of that style or type are there today (and i don’t mean the French bean)?
And in case you wondered, all, the flageolet was a French invention (c.1581).
Why did it die off? I love this encyclopedia’s take on it:
The instrument retained its popularity until the beginning of the 19th century, when Bainbridge constructed double and triple flageolets.<<
The very first of your many illustrations shows an end blown instrument, as have been all the triple flageolets I have handled. What happened to the truth down there ?
The very first of your many illustrations shows an end blown instrument, as have been all the triple flageolets I have handled. What happened to the truth down there ?
Sorry to have annoyed you, dear Andrew.
Great American journalist once said: “Facts by themselves are not truth.”
Still, I was being very nice with that “first of many illustrations” by noting thusly with that citation link:
It appears that Mr. Bainbridge was happy to make any mouthpiece necessary to help sell an instrument.
But in ivory, too! That’s pretty
As you can see (or should have seen)…I never said nor implied that it was end blown…just noted how variant Bainbridge was willing to be to fleece someone of a buck…er…a pound…back then. I guess that’s why sometimes you’re just one large puzzle wrapped in an enigma (or is that enema?..hmmm). Your questions seem to flail all over with statements terribly off point or insinuate something that wasn’t said or implied, but merely inferred by a one-eyed reader.
Don’t worry about not handling enough triples yet to have found one that is end blown. Some day, dear boy, some day. Keep at it. Not as if there’s a huge rush to buy flageolets (“flatulets” maybe?) these days.
I think we should petition Dale to start and Andrew and David debate forum. 
Loren